Grain in Windows 7

[BlackWolf]

hi there,
I don't even know if what I'm about to post is a vlc issue. I guess it is not, but you guys are my last resort.

Since I switched to Windows 7 (beta system, I know) my video quality in vlc got really really bad. It's totally grainy. Even the video title VLC displays at the beginning of a video is really pixelated.

This used to be not so bad (though still noticeable!) in Direct X output. But since I updated to the newest catalyst drivers even that workaround doesn't work anymore (don't know if it's really the catalyst that made the workaround stop working, but it could be).

I do NOT have this problem in any other video player, including WMP. but since VLC is simply the best video player I really really don't want to miss out on it.
Any ideas how to solve this? Maybe it's a codec issue since VLC brings it's own codecs? Is it possible to take the system codecs and make VLC use them or something?

I am using an ATI HD4870 with latest catalysts, also I'm using VLC 1.0.0-git-20090316.

Everything is appreciated! Thanks!

PS: I know windows7 is beta. I would have taken the bad video quality as an issue with the beta, but as far as I read in forums, like 98% of the windows 7 users are not affected by this. Also, since all others players work fine, I guess it somehow has to be a vlc-related problem.

[Jean-Baptiste Kempf]

Use Windows Vista ATI drivers and not Windows Seven ATI drivers.

[BlackWolf]

thanks for the response.
7 and vista use the same installer from ATI. I tried running that installer in vista compatibility so it might detect vista.
unfortunatly the installer doesn't work when I use vista compatibility (it says "installing ati catalyst" but doesn't actually do anything, the progress bar always stays at 0%), so I guess I can't go back to vista drivers.

ideas?

[Jean-Baptiste Kempf]

Not much. I used 9.1 Vista drivers on my Windows 7 machine.

[BlackWolf]

Well, I don't know if it's really the graphics drivers.

I noticed another issue with VLC that might be related:
For some reason, my "direct x output"-workaround started working again (and sometimes it stoppes working, no idea what's going on, but it is working most of the time).
BUT: I just got a nice HDTV that I hooked up to my pc. When I use direct x output (so I don't get grain) and make it fullscreen on my HDTV I get a thick line of messed up picture at the right side of the screen. It's really hard to describe (especially with my limited capabilities in english ), it's like a line of really really bad artefacts / block building. It's always in the same position (right side of the screen, from top to bottom and about 1/5 of the screen is like this, the rest of the video is perfectly fine) and it's there all the time - regardless of video or codec I play.
That line disappears as soon as I switch to another output mode - which, of course, gives me graining again.
I don't know if this helps to solve the problem. Doesn't help me, but maybe you guys can figure it out, I just thought I post it.

Also, on my normal monitor (1680*1050), I do not have this issue, so I can play my videos fullscreen in Direct X output mode which makes me think it's a driver issue after all (I DO have the graining issue on all monitors though).

I will get me the newest build of windows 7 (7068 if I'm not mistaken) and see if that solves the problem if I can get it to update from my current build 7000 (can't do a fresh install).

I saw this issue in a windows 7 forum, it seems like a few people are suffering that issue with VLC on Windows 7, but most people are not. But since VLC is bringing its own codecs and everything installed codecs and things like that shouldn't really matter, should they?
I have to solve this problem, it's the only thing that sucks really bad about windows 7 right now for me.

I'm open for suggestions in any direction.

edit: can't upgrade windows because I can't get a german verison of 7068 -_- so much for that.

[BlackWolf]

Another interesting thing that might help track this issue down:
I tried some other players and noticed that, when I use "KMPlayer" (hope I'm allowed to post this here: http://kmplayer.softonic.de/) I have the exact same issue when I use what they call "VMR" renderer for videos. When I switch to, for example, Direct 3D, everything is fine (though it doesn't produce such a good quality as vlc does ).

Don't know if that helps but maybe you people who have a little more insight on how VLC works can do something with that

[VLC_help]

It is driver issue. ATI has to fix it.

[BlackWolf]

good to know, thanks for the info. At least I can stopping testing around now

If anyone knows a good woraround let me know.

[BlackWolf]

Just wanted to post that I think it's not a driver issue after all.

I managed to install vista 9.1 drivers from ati and it didn't change anything.

also, I read numerous posts about nvidia users having the exact same issue.

Maybe it's something vlc-related after all?

[VLC_help]

VLC doesn't use any special code in video outputs. And because it does work on older driver perfectly, it is a driver issue.

[robinwilson16]

I can confirm that the issue is with the VLC software and Windows 7.

I tried all the different video output modes and all were the same under Windows 7 with 1080p files (720 is watchable)
It seems to mostly affect scenes with lots of light and/or action where the video will keep sticking and become full of artifacts making the film unwatchable.

I then tried downloading the Combined Community Codec Pack(http://www.cccp-project.net/) (made by the makers of the mkv file format) which allows playback of the mkv files within Windows Media Player and it plays 1080p mkv files normally just like Vista with VLC with no skipping/artifacts at all.

I get the same issues on the two main PCs, both with Nvidia graphics cards with one being an SLI 9800GTX setup so didn't really think it was due to the system being over taxed.

I'm hoping you can fix the VLC player for Windows 7 as I still don't get all the options or subtitle support and I prefer it to WMP.

Thanks
Robin

[MioTheGreat]

It is driver issue. ATI has to fix it.

Then why doesn't any DirectShow player have this problem?

[BlackWolf]

yeah, seems to work fine for most other players (like I said, KMPlayer had the same issue with one of his renderers).

Also, it only happens for some output modes. Direct X output mode is fine for me (though unusable on my HDTV for some reason, it messes up the picture like I described above).

Also, it seems to happen with all versions of the ATI driver and with nvidia cards. Like I said I downgraded to 9.1 and it still happens.
The only thing that's really strange is that it doesn't seem to be a general problem under windows 7, only some users suffer it. This is really driving me nuts, I don't have a decent media playback application now (KMPlayer is fine for now, but it has crap quality compared to VLCs normal quality, also it seems unable to playback 5.1 and is just not as nice as vlc feature and stable-wise.)

edit: I could imagine it's somehow linked to aero, but I can't test it because I can't find a way to switch to windows basic in 7 ... -_-

[VLC_help]

Then why doesn't any DirectShow player have this problem?

VLC doesn't use DirectShow.

http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/28 ... hange.html
that might give info about the Aero in Windows 7.

[BlackWolf]

thanks. I disabled aero - it's still the same, so it's not related.

well, let's hope it's a driver issue and ATI fixes it soon ^^ still I wonder, if it is a driver issue, how can I have this problem with 9.1 when j-b posted his vlc is working fine with the same drivers. but I have no insight in these things so ...

[MioTheGreat]

Then why doesn't any DirectShow player have this problem?

VLC doesn't use DirectShow.

I'm aware of this. My point was: If DirectShow doesn't have this problem, what is VLC doing differently that it's managing to expose some kind of driver bug?

[VLC_help]

what is VLC doing differently that it's managing to expose some kind of driver bug?

VLC creates normal rectangle using OpenGL, DirectX, Direct3d, WinGDI or some else graphic system and then VLC blits the video to that rectangle.

[aron7awol]

I've experienced this problem with VLC and both nVidia and ATI cards running on Windows 7. In both cases, I was able to fix this by installing the lastest Vista driver after modification using Mobility Modder.

For ATI cards: http://www.driverheaven.net/modtool.php
For nVidia cards: http://www.driverheaven.net/nvmodtool.php

Windows 7 display drivers use WDDM 1.1 while Vista drivers use WDDM 1.0. Luckily Windows 7 will allow you to use either driver.

[BlackWolf]

I've experienced this problem with VLC and both nVidia and ATI cards running on Windows 7. In both cases, I was able to fix this by installing the lastest Vista driver after modification using Mobility Modder.

For ATI cards: http://www.driverheaven.net/modtool.php
For nVidia cards: http://www.driverheaven.net/nvmodtool.php

Windows 7 display drivers use WDDM 1.1 while Vista drivers use WDDM 1.0. Luckily Windows 7 will allow you to use either driver.

unfortunatly, when I understood it right, these are only for laptop graphic cards (so ATI Mobility cards in case of ATI), are they?
since I use a desktop PC with a ATI Radion 4870 I can't use those drivers, can I?

PS: Just saw that Catalyst 9.4 was released. downloading and hoping right now ... ^^

[aron7awol]

unfortunatly, when I understood it right, these are only for laptop graphic cards (so ATI Mobility cards in case of ATI), are they?
since I use a desktop PC with a ATI Radion 4870 I can't use those drivers, can I?

PS: Just saw that Catalyst 9.4 was released. downloading and hoping right now ... ^^

Yes, you are correct that Mobility Modder is only for laptops. I understand what your issue is now, as ATI has bundled the Vista and 7 drivers in one package which I'm assuming determines which OS you are running and installs the WDDM 1.0 or 1.1 driver accordingly.

Edit: Just saw your post stating you already tried Vista compatibility mode. I'll try to figure out another way to trick the installer.

[aron7awol]

I think you should try the driver posted here:
http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=292307

Otherwise you might have to use Catalyst 9.2:
http://downloads.guru3d.com/ATI-Catalys ... -2191.html

I guess it depends if you're willing to sacrifice some video performance in order to get VLC working properly.

[BlackWolf]

I think you should try the driver posted here:
http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=292307

Otherwise you might have to use Catalyst 9.2:
http://downloads.guru3d.com/ATI-Catalys ... -2191.html

I guess it depends if you're willing to sacrifice some video performance in order to get VLC working properly.

thanks, but I tried 9.1, 9.2, 9.3 and 9.4, all of them in their vista and 7 versions - nothing changed at all.
or is that first driver anything else than the official 9.4? (can't use the second driver since I am on 7 x64)

I tried the first driver you posted - didn't do the trick, same issue as before

[aron7awol]

I didn't realize you were running 64-bit. Try this:

http://downloads.guru3d.com/ATI-Catalys ... -2192.html

This package only contains the WDDM 1.0 driver, so I would think this should fix your issue.

[BlackWolf]

I don't believe you can imagine how much I love you right now o.O

that driver plus "standard" ouput mode did the trick. the image is still screwed on windows GDI output, but whatever

I don't know if the image is as good as it was on vista, but at least it is absolutly watchable now! thank you thank you thank you!

[aron7awol]

I don't believe you can imagine how much I love you right now o.O

that driver plus "standard" ouput mode did the trick. the image is still screwed on windows GDI output, but whatever

I don't know if the image is as good as it was on vista, but at least it is absolutly watchable now! thank you thank you thank you!

I'm glad to hear it finally worked out for you. So DirectX 3D mode is still screwed up for you even with that driver? In "standard" output mode, does Aero get temporarily get disabled? In DirectX (non-3D) mode my Aero gets disabled.