WMAL and FLAC

[CloudStalker]

Since I still don't know how to access the trac I'm forced to ask, or report, here.

I've been having some problems when playing WMAL or FLAC audio files. WMAL gives me the least trouble where there is only a one second skip at the beginning of every song. I've tried playing these files in a couple of other media players and they work well, seamlessly in fact.

As for FLAC audio (the majority of my library) there are a few more problems with it the WMAL. For one whenever the audio starts to play there is a bunch of clicks that go on for about five or six seconds, when you pause and play it will start again. Another annoying problem is that for some songs they never play all the way to the end, they kind of cut off close to the end. The last problem that I am having is the usual: no meta information is displayed and the time display and duration don't work.

I could upload some samples if you need.

[Lotesdelere]

About FLAC and elapsed time counter:

viewtopic.php?t=25841

viewtopic.php?t=26249

Both problems are still there in the nightly builds.

[CloudStalker]

OK, I should have taken my own advice and search before posting. Sorry. Alright, so I see this has been a long term problem and there's still no fix for it yet. I'm using the latest nightly build (May 15th) and the same exact thing happens. I really hate to have to use Windows media player for all my WMAL files or go back to Creative media source for all my FLAC files.

VLC's still the best, except for...

[CloudStalker]

Thanks DJ for reporting these issues in the trac. I just wish I know what to do so that I can go back to posting new tickets.

[DJ]

Yes! Please post some files somewhere. The only issues I encounter is the time issue. But I don't have many files. I do see some discrepancies in Messages and when pausing there is almost always 1 hiccup when leaving pause and this doesn't exist in MPC using CoreFLAC. Try (if you can) muxing some files in MKA (Matroska).

Please don't post them on VLC as there is NOT consistent access for me here.

https://trac.videolan.org/vlc/ticket/1194

[CloudStalker]

I'll upload some files, but I don't quite understand the last comment:

Please don't post them on VLC as there is NOT consistent access for me here.

Don't upload them in this thread, or what? Sorry for my slowness.

[DJ]

VLC has a FTP site. Don't use it. Post the files somewhere else and link to them here.

[CloudStalker]

Alright, here we go. First we'll start with the wmal audio. You'll hear in one of the songs in particular that there is a noticeable cut at the beginning of the it, this is the general problem VLC has with handling all wmal audio files.

And now on to flac audio. If you're using an earlier version of VLC, and by earlier I mean anything before version 0.9.0 then you might notice some pops and click when the song first plays or when you pause/play.

You'll have to excuse my interesting taste in music.

wmal:
Sample #1
Sample #2

flac:
Sample #1
Sample #2

[DJ]

Both "Sample 2" files are being reported as corrupt by WinRar and will not open.

[CloudStalker]

Sorry, I forgot to test them before I submitted them. Could you test them out again to make sure they work properly and tell me if you notice any of the problems listed above?

[DJ]

OK! Now lets see if I can remember this!

BTW Your sample 1 files and sample 2 files are the same 01 Feel - Yuna (Mayuko Aoki).flac???

1. 01 Feel - Yuna (Mayuko Aoki).flac Shows the same problems as I have been talking about in VLC. That is the opening burps once (hesitates) and then plays normally. This is consistent with other files that appear to be cut to tight to the opening of the song. The Pause to play shows the same problem. here is in most cases a single burp (hesitation) and the song plays normally. This particular song does have a CRC error about 1:59 that also shows up in MPC using CoreFLAC. The rest of the issues are NOT present in MPC.

2. 03 Great Bay Shrine.wma I can't seem to find any issues with this file. Other than perhaps it's lack of bottom or it's lack of ambiance. Or even the bad sound of the fluggle horns (brass section as a whole). But this was consistent with the file in other players, using the Windows DMOs.

3. 12 Smash Bros. Great Medley.wma I'm listening to this as I write. Messages is quiet and a Pause Play reveals nothing as it is smooth to the ear. This is a better recording too.

[CloudStalker]

Yay the forum is back up!

Now, It's obvious I'm horrible at uploading samples but I'll try this again seeing as the song you're missing is the one with the most problems. Give me a minute...make that an hour since it takes forever to upload.

As for the song you are currently listening to...pretty cool aren't they? No, aside from that I was thinking of maybe converting the flac audio files to wmal since, other then the minute burb at the beginning, it seems to work a lot better then flac at the moment, plus I can manually add meta information to the wmal files, which is something I can't seem to do with flac.

[CloudStalker]

Grrrr...Stupid long uploading.

OK I think I finally fixed it, then again, you know CloudStalker.

FLAC:
Sample #1

If anyone's interested in encoding with FLAC or WMAL using EAC (Exact Audio Copy) I can make a detailed thread in Coffee Corner topic on how to do this. Come on, it'll be easy.

[DJ]

OK! Last sample! But nothing has changed except the tune. OH! Ya! This one doesn't have a CRC error. Nice piano!
main debug: EOF reached
main debug: closing input
About 3/4 the way through the tune.

I suggested an easy resolve and that was to try Matroska.

Using Matroska, At 1:59 I get this:
flacdec warning: an error in the stream caused the decoder to loose synchronization.
and then it recovers and plays to the end. So I tried again changing a couple of things and I got this.

flacdec warning: the decoder was aborted by the read callback.
This is the original place where it stopped playing but now it plays through to the end. While Matroska shows the time index, the updating of time in this file is strange. I just went and looked at a album I did in FLAC and Muxed in Matroska with chapter indexes for the songs and it's time indexing is normal. There is something strange about the encode, but I can't put my finger on it.

MPC played the file both ways flawlessly. The neat thing about adding or changing a container is that there is no loss. It's not like re-encoding or transcoding.

[CloudStalker]

OK thanks. I think I'm going to try to download this song, again. The most annoying thing about downloading it again is that it comes in a zip file that has other song that I already have, and they work, so downloading is going to be horribly long.

Since wmal works a lot better for me and I can manually add meta information to it, could you tell me how to convert flac to wmal? I've tried searching for it on Google but I found no definitive answer, or maybe I can convert the flac audio files back to PCM format, through them into EAC and from there convert them to wmal, alas I still don't know how to convert them from flac either way.

[DJ]

I don't believe downloading the file again is going to fix the issue. There is something about the encode of this file that makes it strange. At least from what I'm seeing here. MPC using Direct Show (CoreFLAC codec) also saw the break in the code within the file and reinitialized the codec and continued buffering. There was no audible noise or problem with the file as there is in VLC. When I muxed the file into Matroska, time keeping for the file was in chunks of about 5 second intervals (in VLC), but testing other FLAC files in Matroska this does NOT occur and the file burped at the break then played to the end. Time keeping in MPC was also not completely smooth but it was still in 1 second intervals.

I have been suspecting for some time now that VLC has a buffering problem and it shows up in everything to a greater or lesser degree. A number of times now, I have mentioned this in a more subtle manner than I am saying it here. In my opinion either a change in buffering needs to be implemented or another buffer added to do CRC detection and correction. Unfortunately I have no history here to know what has been tried and what is being done presently.

It's been a very long time since researching lossless encoders but I seem to remember tools for various types of lossless encoders that allowed the reversal of the process and you could get the original file back. Any movement on your part to transcode the file will cause generation loss.

[CloudStalker]

Alright then, I guess I'll have to keep searching for a way to convert FLAC audio back to PCM format. Is there really no other way?!?! And how can I be sure that when I convert the audio it will remain at 100% quality without generation loss?

[DJ]

In video you can see the difference and in audio you can hear the difference.

Try the doom9 forums and http://www.videohelp.com or search the net for FLAC.

I keep saying that an exchange of containers does not effect quality, but you keep avoiding this? There is a break in this file and there is no guarantee it will go back to PCM.

[CloudStalker]

Well about half of your words I can't understand anyway; can't avoid what you don't understand. I'd be happy to change the containers if I know how [reads through your post again, understands even less then before]

Sorry if I'm a little slow, OK a lot slow. Who am I typing to again?

Anyway I'll keep up my search.

[DJ]

Matroska is MKV and MKA. The utilities for the muxer I'm using is MKVtoolnix and I believe is available from the Matroska web site.

[Jean-Baptiste Kempf]

Flac #1194 is closed.

[CloudStalker]

In the latest nightly build (May 31st) the duration for flac files does now appear , however, now when you play the file it has this loud scratching noise that persists throughout the playback. I've tried previous nightly builds and it worked fine, other then the duration being display, I've even re-downloaded the nightly and the problem is there too. So I'm just assuming that this is a bug, therefore, I'm reporting it.

[Jean-Baptiste Kempf]

post a trac ticket, make reference to the FLAC modifications form the past days and assign it to fenrir.

[CloudStalker]

Since the change to the trac as of a month or so ago I've been having trouble understanding how to make tickets the way I used to. Maybe I'll just wait for DJ to make the ticket for me , or maybe someone can tell me, step by step, how to make tickets, I mean once I've logged in.

[Jean-Baptiste Kempf]

You need to ask your account to be validated to post tickets because of the spammm