Support for HD-DVD (.EVO) files

[Ayla]

Hi

Would it be possible to implement support for HD-DVD's (or for playing back the .EVO files on the disc)?

Now that they are available at "the usual places" there is no way to play them back on a Mac.

It only works on PC's with PowerDVD or WinDVD.

PS. I can provide you with some sample .EVO files if you need them for testing?

Thanks!
/Martin

[Jean-Baptiste Kempf]

There are samples on ffmpeg's FTP. This has been discussed there, and is not yet ready for VLC. Maybe it is easy enough to be implemented for next version, but we don't know yet.

[Ayla]

There are samples on ffmpeg's FTP. This has been discussed there, and is not yet ready for VLC. Maybe it is easy enough to be implemented for next version, but we don't know yet.

You think there will be a Nightly Build soon with support for HD DVD VC-1?

I thought VLC could already handle VC-1?

Thanks
/Martin

[Ayla]

This is the output in the message log when trying to play an .EVO (decrypted) file in VLC 0.8.6.a:

Message Log:
---------------------
main debug: adding playlist item `HDintro.EVO' ( /Users/marbook/Desktop/Batman Begins/HVDVD_TS/HDintro.EVO )
main debug: creating new input thread
main debug: waiting for thread completion
main debug: thread 35582976 (input) created at priority 37 (input/input.c:265)
main debug: `/Users/marbook/Desktop/Batman Begins/HVDVD_TS/HDintro.EVO' gives access `' demux `' path `/Users/marbook/Desktop/Batman Begins/HVDVD_TS/HDintro.EVO'
main debug: creating demux: access='' demux='' path='/Users/marbook/Desktop/Batman Begins/HVDVD_TS/HDintro.EVO'
main debug: looking for access_demux module: 1 candidate
main debug: creating access '' path='/Users/marbook/Desktop/Batman Begins/HVDVD_TS/HDintro.EVO'
main debug: looking for access2 module: 5 candidates
vcd debug: trying .cue file: /Users/marbook/Desktop/Batman Begins/HVDVD_TS/HDintro.cue
vcd debug: could not find .cue file
access_file debug: opening file `/Users/marbook/Desktop/Batman Begins/HVDVD_TS/HDintro.EVO'
main debug: using access2 module "access_file"
main debug: pre-buffering...
main debug: received first data for our buffer
macosx debug: input has changed, refreshing interface
main debug: pre-buffering done 1408981 bytes in 0s - 19430 kbytes/s
main debug: creating demux: access='' demux='' path='/Users/marbook/Desktop/Batman Begins/HVDVD_TS/HDintro.EVO'
main debug: looking for demux2 module: 44 candidates
main debug: using demux2 module "ps"
main debug: looking for a subtitle file in /Users/marbook/Desktop/Batman Begins/HVDVD_TS/
main debug: `/Users/marbook/Desktop/Batman Begins/HVDVD_TS/HDintro.EVO' successfully opened
ps warning: garbage at input, trying to resync...
ps warning: found sync code
ps debug: we found a length of: 122038578
ps debug: we found a length of: 122064000
ps debug: es id=0xfd format unknown
main debug: selecting program id=0
ps debug: es id=0xbdc0 format unknown
ps warning: garbage at input, trying to resync...
ps warning: found sync code
ps warning: garbage at input, trying to resync...
ps warning: found sync code
ps warning: garbage at input, trying to resync...
ps warning: found sync code
ps warning: garbage at input, trying to resync...
ps warning: found sync code
ps warning: garbage at input, trying to resync...
ps warning: found sync code
ps warning: garbage at input, trying to resync...
ps warning: found sync code
ps warning: garbage at input, trying to resync...
ps warning: found sync code
ps warning: garbage at input, trying to resync...
ps warning: found sync code
---------------------

Hope it helps

[Rémi Denis-Courmont]

First, are you sure the media is not encrypted?

Second, no, it hardly helps. Only a legally-copyable sample would really help.

[Ayla]

First, are you sure the media is not encrypted?

Second, no, it hardly helps. Only a legally-copyable sample would really help.

Thanks for the reply

Yes, the media is not encrypted, I'm sure.

Ok, I don't know about a legally-copyable sample, but the files, as far as I know are encoded with MPEG-4 VC-1.

Does VLC support playback of that in it's current version?

[Ayla]

I found this news update on a FFMPEG developers homepage:

"And another task - make work VC-1 embedded in .EVO - official format of BlueRay/HD-DVD."

Link: http://codecs.multimedia.cx/?cat=8

So I guess it's coming... Am I right in assuming that if FFMPEG supports it, so will VLC (sooner or later)?

[dionoea]

So I guess it's coming... Am I right in assuming that if FFMPEG supports it, so will VLC (sooner or later)?

The day ffmpeg supports it it'll be in VLC (developement version)

[ecaffeine]

can't wait!

<3

[Rémi Denis-Courmont]

Or maybe not. I presume it's a demutiplexer problem, and as far as I know, VLC uses its own MPEG-PS demuxer, rather than ffmpeg's libavformat.

[Ayla]

Or maybe not. I presume it's a demutiplexer problem, and as far as I know, VLC uses its own MPEG-PS demuxer, rather than ffmpeg's libavformat.

Ok, thanks for that info!

Can I request an updated MPEG-PS demuxer then, that supports VC-1 .EVO's?

Would it be possible to implement it in an upcoming nightly build?

/Martin

[Rémi Denis-Courmont]

Can I request an updated MPEG-PS demuxer then, that supports VC-1 .EVO's?

You can, but that won't make it happen.

To make it happen, someone has to send a patch (sure way), or to send a legal sample (much less sure way). It has little chance of happening without something to validate against.

[Ayla]

Can I request an updated MPEG-PS demuxer then, that supports VC-1 .EVO's?

You can, but that won't make it happen.

To make it happen, someone has to send a patch (sure way), or to send a legal sample (much less sure way). It has little chance of happening without something to validate against.

By "validate against" do you mean, samples?

I just found some .EVOB samples (legal!) on the MPlayer ftp
Link: ftp://mplayerhq.hu/MPlayer/samples/evob/

Please tell me if that is good enough for your testing purposes?

Thanks!

PS. I'm not a programmer, but there are some very interesting discussions about EVOB demuxing in this thread at the Doom9 forum.

Link: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=120652&page=5

[Ayla]

So I guess it's coming... Am I right in assuming that if FFMPEG supports it, so will VLC (sooner or later)?

The day ffmpeg supports it it'll be in VLC (developement version)

Read this on the Doom9 forum today:

"ffmpeg included EVO demuxxing today. So I hope soon there is no need for a external demuxxer / a open source one will come around.
(http://svn.mplayerhq.hu/ffmpeg?view=rev&revision=7853 )"

So will this be included in a VLC development version now?

Will it help with playback of .EVO files in VLC?

Thanks

[Ayla]

Hi

I just compiled the latest MPlayer SVN and it now plays .EVO files (a bit laggy using CoreVideo).

Can this help implementing it in VLC too?

[DJ]

VLC is NOT a Direct Show player.

[ToeCutter]

Far be it from me to appear ungrateful for the time spent developing a thoroughly exceptional media player, but:

How about providing a single, conclusive answer regarding EVO playback in VLC?

One dev says yes, another says no (while curtly rejecting any assistance offered by Martin), and yet a third reminds us that VLC is not MPlayer.

Can we expect EVO support anytime soon (<120 days)?

Just let us know so we can:

A) Express our excitement for an awesome new feature, or

B) Get over our disappointment and continue seeking an EVO media player for Mac

Thanks...

[Rémi Denis-Courmont]

To state things clearly: since MPlayer / ffmpeg supports EVO, VLC could do it too. And now we have sample to test against.

BUT VLC is severely lacking developers at the moment, particularly regarding the demux/decoding and MPEG stuff. In fact, I would not expect EVO support to be done by any of the currently active dev (could still happen, but AFAIK that's nobody's expertise area atm). Besides, none of us has a HDTV so the incentive is pretty small - much like the incentive to fix (unrelated) weird amd64 problems.

SO unless some contributes a patch, it will not happen for the time being.

[Ayla]

Thank you ToeCutter... And thanks for the reply Rémi.

I gues I will have to use MPlayer for all my HD DVD/Blu-ray needs, too bad.

[ToeCutter]

To state things clearly: since MPlayer / ffmpeg supports EVO, VLC could do it too. And now we have sample to test against.

BUT VLC is severely lacking developers at the moment, particularly regarding the demux/decoding and MPEG stuff. In fact, I would not expect EVO support to be done by any of the currently active dev (could still happen, but AFAIK that's nobody's expertise area atm). Besides, none of us has a HDTV so the incentive is pretty small - much like the incentive to fix (unrelated) weird amd64 problems.

SO unless some contributes a patch, it will not happen for the time being.

That's a perfectly reasonable response.

Thank you, Rémi.

There's been considerable activity over at Doom9 (as Martin mentioned) specifically focused on EVO demuxing. While their goals are quite different than those of the VLC devs, there may be valuable information there.

Lack of native EVO support might not be much of an issue. I'm betting that folks will tire quickly of dealing with such large files and compress them accordingly. A 30 Mbps VC-1 stream is pretty, but all those pretty bits soak up ALOT storage quickly.

[ToeCutter]

Thank you ToeCutter...

No worries, Martin (I saw you're Evo-related posts on several forums

Were in the same "Wanna watch HD-DVDs on Mac" boat....

[Ayla]

Thank you ToeCutter...

No worries, Martin (I saw you're Evo-related posts on several forums

Were in the same "Wanna watch HD-DVDs on Mac" boat....

I've talked to some FFMPEG developers and they're currently working on a52/b (or E-AC3) support.

This will be in MPlayer as soon as they fix it, as they update it all the time.

Then there's full video/sound support for HD DVD/Blu-ray (just need the menus after that, but that's of minor importance).

I guess I'll switch to MPlayer, I really think the development speed (and for good reason as Rémi writes) is slow with VLC. But when all the work has to be done in their spare time, that understandable of course.

But the admins here doesn't seem too responsive or interested in answering questions.

Deliver a patch is all they write... hmm, great

Please update the thread or write me if you come up with anything interesting in our quest for HD DVD on the Mac ToeCutter.

/Martin

[Jean-Baptiste Kempf]

We answer questions when we can answer them.

There are few developers on VLC, and we are inter-release. We will work on it since it is going to be a huge demand. But as it is not really ready in ffmpeg, I don't see the urgence.

[wrath]

it would be nice to have *.EVO files ..
"images from the past"(Edwin Gregoscky)

[Ayla]

it would be nice to have *.EVO files ..

Then your best bet is MPlayer, unfortunately, video is working great and commentary tracks etc. (that are not E-AC3) works too.