VLC codec and main packetizer errors!

[DJ]

It's only confirming that it is raw video. Some formats and containers don't seem to like raw video. QT's mp4 is one as it appears to have been designed to accept MPEG 1 or 2. You have discovered that DivX 3 will work with mp3 in a asf container. Assuming that DivX is installed for Direct Show, WMP will work. This may be as close as you will get to compatibility at the present time with VLC.

[isidro]

DJ,

I have written to Mr. Laurent Aimar (a VLC developer) and to streaming@videolan.org hoping that someone answers me. If a have an answer I’ll let you know and if you discover a something about it, please le me know (write me a private message).

All I want is VLC with all its functionalities working again.

Thank you for all your help and attention.

Regards,

Isidro.

[DJ]

While I believe that any format should be compatible with any container and all containers should be capable of streaming, that's not how it is in the real world.

Further, I also believe that any source should be able to be transcoded or streamed in any major format and container, this does not exist in the real world. About as close as you get today are rather complex discussions and how to(s) on Doom9.org and this does not cover streaming.

There have been many companies that have spent millions in trials of VoD that have met with only limited success. This is growing and the need will only increase, so I would expect that within the next couple of years there will be great strides made in this arena to make it be what it needs to be and that is communicable.

I wish you well and if I come across something else I will include it here.

[grobinson]

DJ,

Thanks for your insights. I too am having fun and games trying to stream some ts video transcoded as an mpg that graphedit can render. The reason I want to render it in graphedit is because I want to stream it to a media server (on the same PC), which requires the feed to be compatible with graphedit.

I have found I can transcode the video to file and render the file in graphedit - but I can't get a stream to work for me. This may be due to my complete lack of networking skills! I am trying to stream via http://localhost:8080. I can render the stream if I encapsulate as an mpeg-ts, but it won't if I encapsulate as an mpeg-ps. Like mentioned previously in this forum, I can get video but no audio if encapsulated as raw.

What I am wondering is whether I am better off using mmsh or udp streaming, and if so what sort of URL do I stream it from to. I see other URL's on the web (that the media server will stream) as mms://... If I stream (using ts encapsulation that works for http) to mmsh://localhost:8080, graphedit won't render the stream. If I try to pick up mms://localhost:8080, graphedit crashes.

As I said at the start, my ignorance of protocols and URLs is probably not helping, but I've looked around this and other forums to learn more (including the "VideoLAN Streaming Howto") - but I've not found anything that's advancing my understanding. So any clarification would be gratefully appreciated.

Cheers,
Grant

[DJ]

DJ,

Thanks for your insights. I too am having fun and games trying to stream some ts video transcoded as an mpg that graphedit can render. The reason I want to render it in graphedit is because I want to stream it to a media server (on the same PC), which requires the feed to be compatible with graphedit.

It's always fun and games getting started. I think what you are trying to do is make the stream Direct Show compatible with stock codecs. While the stock codecs thing unfortunately, may be an issue. For example: Direct Show does not fully support MPEG-2 PS it's missing a decoder out of the set of codecs. I have found that I prefer WinDVD after going round and round with both free and paid programs. Windows or WinDVD does not support MPEG-2 TS at all and I have found it rather difficult to find a real good one that works in the HD forms. After trying bunches of them, I finally ended up with DVBportal HDTVpump and works real well with Graph Edit as does WinDVD's MPEG-2 decoder as a set. Sound is handled by WinDVD as well (ac3, DTS, MPGa). It will also work with DivX and XviD if you look for and install Gabest's avi2ac3filter.ax

I have found I can transcode the video to file and render the file in graphedit - but I can't get a stream to work for me. This may be due to my complete lack of networking skills! I am trying to stream via http://localhost:8080. I can render the stream if I encapsulate as an mpeg-ts, but it won't if I encapsulate as an mpeg-ps. Like mentioned previously in this forum, I can get video but no audio if encapsulated as raw.

The MPEG-PS format was not designed to be streamed but, the MPEG-TS format was and to make this compatible you will need to do what I mentioned above. Raw video and or audio just takes up to much space and power in most cases.

What I am wondering is whether I am better off using mmsh or udp streaming, and if so what sort of URL do I stream it from to. I see other URL's on the web (that the media server will stream) as mms://... If I stream (using ts encapsulation that works for http) to mmsh://localhost:8080, graphedit won't render the stream. If I try to pick up mms://localhost:8080, graphedit crashes.

MMS as I recall was designed by Microsoft to stream files across the Internet, because of the speed restrictions of the Internet a lot of attention needs to be paid to resolution and bit rate so as to stay within the bandwidth limitations, thus there is also some quality considerations in doing this on many non commercial connections. Hopefully, this will become easier in the next few years.

Considering appear to want to do this locally UDP should be fine.

As I said at the start, my ignorance of protocols and URLs is probably not helping, but I've looked around this and other forums to learn more (including the "VideoLAN Streaming Howto") - but I've not found anything that's advancing my understanding. So any clarification would be gratefully appreciated.

The most difficult thing in getting started is realizing how most of the formats and containers came into existence. Who created them and for what purpose. What formats work with (play nice) others and which ones don't. Then there is always, what VLC is supporting at the moment and what is intended and what isn't finished or broke.

The MPEG-TS container using MPGv and MPGa or MP3 is very safe and reasonably stable. This should work for both local playback and streaming. I have also found that if the original source is MPEG, often times transcoding is not necessary, just choosing the container works, but you may need to play with audio when streaming.

Now in case you haven't noticed there is no real easy answer to your questions, I have just tried to establish some guide lines that should help you accomplish what you say you are trying to do and do it with some quality.

Well, maybe .asf! I am routing for H.264 with AAC sound in a MP4 or MOV container for streaming in the near future. But there are still some hurtles to overcome.

Now it's still possible I missed the point of your media server. If you intend to stream over the Internet.

[grobinson]

I think what you are trying to do is make the stream Direct Show compatible with stock codecs.

I wondered whether my problem would come down to codecs. Stock codecs would be good but I too have other codecs that graphedit can pick up. In fact, I've got heaps of them - but I'm not sure how to manage them.

When streaming the ts encapsulation graphedit uses the Nero Splitter, Intervideo Video decoder, and ffdshow audio decoder. When I stream the same file with ps encapsulation, it uses the ULead splitter but has no audio or video output pins. Attempts to connect the stream to other filters results in errors that the pins won't connect.

I've got WinDVD5 OEM which plays back mpeg-2 files happily. And PowerDVD5 OEM. And ULeas VS 7 OEM. And Nero7 which I use for converting broadcast ts files to mpeg. The media server won't deal with ts files so I convert them to mpeg for the server to play back later.

I have also found that if the original source is MPEG, often times transcoding is not necessary, just choosing the container works, but you may need to play with audio when streaming.

Yes, my attempts to date have simply been streaming an mpeeg file using different containers. If I can get that going, the rest is easy (I think!).

What I want to do now is stream "live" TV i.e. record with Webscheduler to ts and transcode the ts (as it records) to an mpeg stream for the media server (DSM-320) to pick up.

The DSM streams fine off the web. Maybe I need to investigate more how it does that (what protocols and formats). Either that or find a filter that connects better with the output of the VLC ps stream to pass on audio and video.

Well, maybe .asf! I am routing for H.264 with AAC sound in a MP4 or MOV container for streaming in the near future. But there are still some hurtles to overcome

I'll back that! The DSM plays mp4 - but as you say, VLC doesn't stream it at present.

Thanks for the info.

[DJ]

I wondered whether my problem would come down to codecs. Stock codecs would be good but I too have other codecs that graphedit can pick up. In fact, I've got heaps of them - but I'm not sure how to manage them.

RadLite Filter Manager

proppage.dll for Graph Edit if you don't already have it. It does need to be registered.

RegDrop After using this utility for a while, my system seemed to accept it and now no matter where I store codecs I can right click on the codec and register or un-register it. As you probably have discovered it is difficult to have a central directory for all you codecs although I still try with one under Graph Edit.

When streaming the ts encapsulation graphedit uses the Nero Splitter, Intervideo Video decoder, and ffdshow audio decoder. When I stream the same file with ps encapsulation, it uses the ULead splitter but has no audio or video output pins. Attempts to connect the stream to other filters results in errors that the pins won't connect.

I've got WinDVD5 OEM which plays back mpeg-2 files happily. And PowerDVD5 OEM. And ULeas VS 7 OEM. And Nero7 which I use for converting broadcast ts files to mpeg. The media server won't deal with ts files so I convert them to mpeg for the server to play back later.

Gee! and I thought I was bad! The real trick is to know your decoders and decide between them based on quality and then rate them using Windows Rating system so that Direct Show picks up the combinations you want and fall backs to the next best if that one doesn't support. It takes a while to get the hang of it, but the tools I suggested should help.

Yes, my attempts to date have simply been streaming an mpeeg file using different containers. If I can get that going, the rest is easy (I think!).

What I want to do now is stream "live" TV i.e. record with Webscheduler to ts and transcode the ts (as it records) to an mpeg stream for the media server (DSM-320) to pick up.

The DSM streams fine off the web. Maybe I need to investigate more how it does that (what protocols and formats). Either that or find a filter that connects better with the output of the VLC ps stream to pass on audio and video..

You are further along in this area as I do not have a media server. But I don't think MPEG-PS will ever work well for that purpose.

The DSM plays mp4 - but as you say, VLC doesn't stream it at present.

Hopefully, if the MOV container was fixed or rebuilt it would work

[grobinson]

DJ,

Yes these codecs get a bit fussy and tricky. When I installed HDTVpump, I think it upset my Nero set up as after I installed it I couldn't load ts files into Nero for conversion to mpeg. (At least I think it was HDTVpump's fault).

I've just download the apps you mentioned. I'll see how I go. Thanks again.

Cheers,
Grant

[DJ]

DJ,

Yes these codecs get a bit fussy and tricky. When I installed HDTVpump, I think it upset my Nero set up as after I installed it I couldn't load ts files into Nero for conversion to mpeg. (At least I think it was HDTVpump's fault).

I've just download the apps you mentioned. I'll see how I go. Thanks again.

Cheers,
Grant

I am a bit surprised at this one. But I have run across the Haali multimedia set that causes problems with VLC's transcode functions. So I guess that you can run across conflicts even when there shouldn't be one.

I have used Nero and don't remember this, but I might not have hit the right combination.

[grobinson]

And I may be maligning HDTVPump. I did 2 installs - iTunes6 and HDTVPump between when Nero worked and when Nero didn't work. So I did a system restore back to prior iTunes (because I thought it was the more likely problem) and Nero still worked. I havent gone back and tried HDTVPump, 1 because I now had hightened suspicions and 2 because I had read elswhere that it sets itself up a the higher priority filter for ts files (which I thought may be the source of the initial problem).

I'll create a restore point and try installing it again.

Cheers,
Grant

[DJ]

Actually it sets itself up with a very low priority, according to Windows Merit system it's in the "do not use" category which means that anything else can easily take control.

[grobinson]

Unfortunately HDTVPump does indeed stop Nero7 doing what I want it to do. After I installed HDTVPump, the next time I re-booted, NeroVision4 (in the Nero7 suite) wouldn't accept my ts files to convert to mpeg. De-registered HDTVPump, re-booted, and all was well again.

I've got to re-install it again to try to get VLC to stream to TVersity using a ts encapsulation. I'll try changing merits to see if I can get the two to co-exist happily.

BTW, I got the Radlite filter manager and I have G-Spot too to make life a bit easier managing the 323 codecs on my PC. I'm sure I'll need them to sort this matter out.

Cheers,
Grant

[DJ]

Unfortunately HDTVPump does indeed stop Nero7 doing what I want it to do. After I installed HDTVPump, the next time I re-booted, NeroVision4 (in the Nero7 suite) wouldn't accept my ts files to convert to mpeg. De-registered HDTVPump, re-booted, and all was well again.

I've got to re-install it again to try to get VLC to stream to TVersity using a ts encapsulation. I'll try changing merits to see if I can get the two to co-exist happily.

BTW, I got the Radlite filter manager and I have G-Spot too to make life a bit easier managing the 323 codecs on my PC. I'm sure I'll need them to sort this matter out.

Cheers,
Grant

Sorry to hear that the pump isn't working out. I was real surprised that Haali interferes with VLC's transcode functions. I have since moved away form Nero when I first discovered that the Haali front end did a better job and then when I discovered that it was not always playing H.264 compatible files properly (with or without the Haali front end). The compatible h.264 is supposed to be Ateme, QuickTime, x.264 and Nero. Nero is supposed to be using the Ateme decoder but it doesn't perform as well and uses more overhead to do the job. It's only money and time. Some day it might all work.

[jeng]

Sorry to sound stupid but I'd like to know how do you use the command line specifically for the VLC player?

[Guest]

Sorry to sound stupid but I'd like to know how do you use the command line specifically for the VLC player?

Open a DOS box and type: cd c:\progra~1\videolan\vlc and press enter. Then type: vlc -H and press enter. Then type: edit vlc-help.txt and press enter.