ttxt doesn't use format

[patrick_]

I tried to play a MP4 with ttxt subtitles.
It does display the subtitles, buy without format/positioning.

I tried the 3GP_test_09 in a MP4 file created StaxRip (I think it uses MP4BOX).

Maybe I missed some configuration?

Thanks in advance.

[DJ]

There is no formating or positioning information in a text (.txt) based sub.

VLC does NOT completely support 3gp. However the tests I have seen by Stax don't run on hardly any player I have tried. Given I have very little problems in the real world I through out the tests.

[patrick_]

There is no formating or positioning information in a text (.txt) based sub.

Download the sample and you'll see there is.

Code: Select all

<TextSample sampleTime="00:00:03.000" sampleDescriptionIndex="2" text="'1. text-color is ''GREEN and RED'"> <Style fromChar="18" toChar="23" styles="Normal" fontSize="12" color="0 ff 0 ff"/> <Style fromChar="28" toChar="31" styles="Normal" fontSize="12" color="ff 0 0 ff"/> </TextSample>

Code: Select all

<TextSample sampleTime="00:00:26.000" sampleDescriptionIndex="1" text="'4. text-box is located at'' the top of the video.'"> <TextBox top="0" left="0" bottom="30" right="176"/> <Style fromChar="31" toChar="34" styles="Bold " fontSize="12" color="ff 0 0 ff"/> </TextSample>

VLC does NOT completely support 3gp. However the tests I have seen by Stax don't run on hardly any player I have tried. Given I have very little problems in the real world I through out the tests.

I've had about 10,000 downloads of MP4 files. Nobody ever complained. I know most use MPC and VLP.
Is there any possibility you will support 3gp? I know a lot of people who care, because now all put a MP4 with SSA/ASS in MKV, but things would be easier with 3gp.

[DJ]

While Sub Station Alpha subs do work, VLC does not support text formating or positional information at this time.

MP4 is a container and is supported. 3gp however is a variety of formats, primarily for audio and not every format is supported.

[patrick_]

I hope someday there will be some formated subtitle within MP4 supported.
But thanks anyways.

[DJ]

Sub support for MP4 is relatively new and not every muxer supports it. Not every player supports it either and the formats for the subs are also limited at this time, mostly by the available muxers and players.

Nero is the primary push behind this and QT now has their own format. There may be better support in all these areas in the future of VLC. All it takes is time and manpower.

[Teetrinker]

...MP4 is a container and is supported. 3gp however is a variety of formats, primarily for audio and not every format is supported.

VLC doesn't supported the MP4 file format (ISO/IEC 14496-14) if you are strict. The files that are supported by VLC are more 3GP/MOV files than MP4 files.

MP4 File Format
MP4 files are generally used to contain MPEG-4 media, including not only MPEG-4 audio and/or video, but also MPEG-4 presentations. When a complete or partial presentation is stored in an MP4 file, there are specific structures that document that presentation.
MPEG-4 presentations are scenes, described by the scene language MPEG-4 BIFS. Within those scenes media objects can be placed; these media objects might be audio, video, or entire sub-scenes. Each object is described by an object descriptor, and within the object descriptor the streams that make up that object are described. The entire scene is described by an initial object descriptor (IOD). This is stored in a special box within the movie atom in MP4 files. The scene and the object descriptors it uses are stored in tracks — a scene track, and an object descriptor track; for files that comprise a full MPEG-4 presentation this IOD and these two tracks are required.
Each stream is described by an elementary stream descriptor. When a complete scene is delivered, these are delivered as part of the object descriptor stream. However, for ease of composition, and to manage files that contain only media streams, these elementary stream descriptors are stored with the media streams themselves — in the descriptive track structures — in MP4 files.

Source: http://www.chiariglione.org/mpeg/techno ... /index.htm

The above described is not supported by VLC. For more INFO look here:
http://www.chiariglione.org/mpeg/standa ... mpeg-4.htm

VLC have better support for 3GP than MP4.
The only open source player that really supports the MP4 file format is Osmo4/MP4Client from http://gpac.sf.net .

[Teetrinker]

Nero is the primary push behind this and QT now has their own format. There may be better support in all these areas in the future of VLC. All it takes is time and manpower.

Nero is doing there own things.
The Sub Format used by QT and GPAC is defined by http://www.3gpp.org/ and by http://www.iso.org/ (ISO/IEC 14496-17).

[DJ]

I have been trying desperately to be NON technical in my responses to people.

Yes, Nero is doing there own thing and often with very limited support by other players, but it is doubtful GPAC would have moved to support any subs if it weren't for Nero. In case you haven't noticed MP4Creator is still not supporting subs. VLC is following GPAC, but GPAC is a specification for a container (MP4Box) and NOT a format. However there is no support for QT subs at this time. VLC also supports the main stream standards for the MPEG 4 formats such as Sorenson, 3ivx, Microsoft's MPEG43, XviD and DivX (even MJPEG is supported again). I have used the encoders for all of these and never encountered an issue with VLC.

Please provide a link to your reference and I will look at it, also provide a link to a standard encoder.

[Teetrinker]

I have been trying desperately to be NON technical in my responses to people.

It is Ok to do so, but I could not keep back to write an comment, because it happens from time to time that somebody with some technical background visit this forum.

Yes, Nero is doing there own thing and often with very limited support by other players, but it is doubtful GPAC would have moved to support any subs if it weren't for Nero.

The Nero subtittle support have been added to GPAC because somebody provided an patch. But this subtittle format isn't standardized by an alliance like 3GPP or ISO.
The 3GPP Timed Text/(ISO/IEC 14496-17)Streaming text format support was added because there was demand for this standardized subtittle format.

In case you haven't noticed MP4Creator is still not supporting subs.

For me MP4Creator isn'tfrom any interest. Doesn't fit my neeeds.

VLC is following GPAC, but GPAC is a specification for a container (MP4Box) and NOT a format. However there is no support for QT subs at this time. VLC also supports the main stream standards for the MPEG 4 formats such as Sorenson, 3ivx, Microsoft's MPEG43, XviD and DivX (even MJPEG is supported again).

VLC should not follow implementions, it should follow standards defined by organisations like 3GPP, ISO, MPEG ... (IMO)

I have used the encoders for all of these and never encountered an issue with VLC.

I didn't say that there is an issue with simple MP4 files. I only said that if you are strict, VLC isn't an MP4 file format player. This comment was intended for the technical intrested user/developer. Not for the average user who only want to watch his files. But this comments have to be from time to time, because the developer from tomorrow start as a normal user.

Please provide a link to your reference and I will look at it, also provide a link to a standard encoder.

The text I quoted above is from here:
Source: http://www.chiariglione.org/mpeg/techno ... /index.htm
If you use google you should be able to find the MPEG 4 Systems Referenceimplementation, but you probably better take look at GPAC.

[DJ]

I think that if you really read this standard and say you understand it, then you should also understand that this ISO standard (dated Oct. 2005) covers a family of formats under the umbrella of MPEG 4. In other words all formats that are considered part of the MPEG 4 specification that have thus far been used in a MP4, 3GP, 3G2, MJ2 or MOV containers. This excludes such formats as DivX and XviD which are still considered MPEG 4. As with many such standards of the ISO/IEC it leaves much to the imagination as far as implementation goes and no matter how classically you try to implement it there still may exist incompatibilities with someone else's implementation. I have seen both Apple Computer with Quick Time and Sony, Panasonic, JVC, Mitsubishi and others with a number of products violate their own rules within a format to compensate for some inadequacy in hardware or Apple Computer to keep everyone guessing about their proprietary products. Now comes the time for VLC to compensate for everyones notions of the so called standard and play it??? Dream on! I have been there (here) before and it takes time to get everyone on the same page and there are always a few that really don't want to be on that page even though they are part of the alliance.

I notice you did not or could not give me a reference to a common encoder to say nothing at this point about a common muxer. Probably because they don't exist as this could also be said for your statement of a strict player. Specially when you add the variants of 3gpp into this equation.

FYI VLC does follow the recommendations and specifications for a format and is working on 3gpp along with other forms in the ISO/IEC specifications. As to when this work will be complete is a matter of manpower and time. As always the source code is available to everyone and changes or patches are welcomed.

[Teetrinker]

I think that if you really read this standard and say you understand it, then you should also understand that this ISO standard (dated Oct. 2005) covers a family of formats under the umbrella of MPEG 4.
In other words all formats that are considered part of the MPEG 4 specification that have thus far been used in a MP4, 3GP, 3G2, MJ2 or MOV containers. This excludes such formats as DivX and XviD which are still considered MPEG 4.

I am only talking about the MP4 File Format(ISO/IEC 14496-14). All I sayed is that VLC handle MP4 files like MOV/3GP files, not like a MP4 file. If you are strict, VLC doesn't support the MP4 File format and probably never will support it.
I am not talking about Codecs used in the MP4 conatainer.

I notice you did not or could not give me a reference to a common encoder to say nothing at this point about a common muxer. Probably because they don't exist as this could also be said for your statement of a strict player.

I didn't provieded a direct link, because I had somehow the impression that your are not really interested/unobservant.

If you want a direct link take MP4Box from http://gpac.sf.net and and create MP4 files from this sample http://gpac.cvs.sourceforge.net/gpac/gp ... ion_tests/ .
Or use the IBMToolkitForMpeg4 from here http://www.alphaworks.ibm.com/tech/tk4mpeg4 . You will find there sample files too.

[DJ]

OK! I bite, how does VLC not conform to the specification? Please provide examples (excerpts from the specification). Perhaps it would be smart to provide an actual link to the specification in question this time???

As I said before, VLC follows GPAC of which you seem to approve of. So please provide examples (video files) of how VLC is deviating from the specification?

Perhaps you have not totally thought through my prior post. For a vendor of a media player like VLC that plays, transcodes and streams media files it is necessary to follow the relevant specifications for the format and container. Also to form compatibility it is necessary to form alliances with others that are working on and believe in the future of any given format and or container. VLC is open source and makes these alliances with others that are open source. Matroska, GPAC, FFmpeg and others are good examples. But the Developers are strict about following the specification for any given format and or container.

To take this a step further (considering that I am now being accused of being not interested), what is it that you would like to see in VLC that isn't there?

I didn't provieded a direct link, because I had somehow the impression that your are not really interested/unobservant.

FYI I use MP4Box quit a bit and like it. Assuming I follow the rules for creating formats supported by GPAC, I have not had any issues with VLC. This is not to say that I didn't miss something (under construction perhaps), but I do understand (reasonably) how and when to use options to create compatible files and a few areas that are difficult to gain compatibility with everyone.

Also again, you are invited to contribute to VLC through changes and or patches in the source code.

[Teetrinker]

I feel like I would try to describe a blind man what seeing means. I don't think that we will get any productive out of this discusion.

If your are really intrested to learn what MPEG 4 is, you could go in library and read this book: http://www.amazon.com/MPEG-4-Book-Toura ... 0130616214 or take a look at the links which where posted above. The player from GPAC is an good starting point too.

ISO standards can be bought here: http://www.iso.org

Regards
Richard

[DJ]

I see said the blind man! I guess that I am just going to have to grope and suppose what is meant here without any kind of example or request for a change. Actually seems like a cop-out to me.

[Jean-Baptiste Kempf]

Please calm down, or I'll shut this thread down.

I mean it.

Now, for the nth time, we know that subtitles are not the best yet in VLC media player, but there are hundreds of different formats every years, and this is getting a bit boring...

First, subtitles format have changed a lot in trunk... So any report and whining about "those subtitles are not working in 0.8.6" are IGNORED.
Then, we have a Summer of Code project on ASS/SSA/SA5 and all those related subtitles...
Finally, subtitles detection, format are easy code, so please submit patches instead of whining.

[patrick_]

Then, we have a Summer of Code project on --please stay polite--/SSA/SA5 and all those related subtitles...

What's SA5?

Finally, subtitles detection, format are easy code, so please submit patches instead of whining.

Can you give me a code example without having to search thru the entire source of VLC? Maybe I'll code 3GP .ttxt integration.
It would be great if you can pass me the class that reads SSA files.

[Jean-Baptiste Kempf]

I meant AS5...

http://trac.videolan.org/vlc/browser/tr ... /subsdec.c

http://trac.videolan.org/vlc/browser/tr ... subtitle.c