Dual subtitles?

[testboa]

Hi there! I know that many videos offer multiple subtitles and I'm wondering if VLC could add support to display more than one set at once. Obviously, they would not be on top of each other, but VLC could offer an option regarding where to place each set. I like one on top and one on bottom, or one on bottom and one on far bottom. Since many movies are widescreen and have the black bars, it wouldn't take up valuable movie screen real estate. As another option, they could be displayed in separate windows. I'm not a programmer but it doesn't seem like it would be too hard to do. May I politely request that this be added? What is the likely hood of it happening? Thank you very much for your time.

[dionoea]

That's not possible yet but might be added in future versions (basically the core allows it ... we just don't have any options to select multiple subs in the interface :/ )

[Guest]

Sounds good. Who would be responsible for it? And is there any timeframe I can expect (the possibility of) it? Thanks so much for the quick reply and great software.

[dionoea]

Best way to know is to bug people on IRC ( #videolan on Freenode)

[Guest]

How do I do that? And does anyone else like my idea? I'm surprised it has not been requested before.

[dionoea]

It's already been suggested before but noone took the time to code it

[rooley]

I would love this feature! I have multiple monitors and would really appreciate the ability to both enable multiple subtitles and choose where they go (I would like to position them on the lower black bar if I have one monitor—so that they don't block the actual movie). This way, I could use English and another language's subtitles to learn the foreign language and its idioms.

On a side-note, does anyone know why foreign-dubbed DVDs' audio almost never match the subtitles? The subtitles seem to be translated literally and the audio seems to be dubbed with a more culturally translated feel. Does the foreign language subtitle writer not have access to the dub script?

Thanks for the help!

[joseph5]

On a side-note, does anyone know why foreign-dubbed DVDs' audio almost never match the subtitles? The subtitles seem to be translated literally and the audio seems to be dubbed with a more culturally translated feel. Does the foreign language subtitle writer not have access to the dub script?

Thanks for the help!

Because when dubbing you have to make sure the sentences match the lip movements of the real actors.

[jeffbbz]

I also would not only love this feature but really really need it!

I live with a number of friends from different countries (germany, japan, korea, america), but its really impossible to watch a movie all together because we usually need at least two sets of subtitles (sometimes even three but I don't wanna be greedy and that might be too distracting anyway).

This feature would be an amazing life saver. I can guess it is not a high priority for most people, but if you live with a more international bunch of folks then it would be really fantastic!

PLEASE SOMEBODY DO IT SOON FOR ME!! PLEASE!

also rooley: joseph5 is correct, and because of that dubbing usually makes major changes to what the people are actually saying. and subtitles are rarely very literal. In fact sometimes they are a little wrong as well.

[NateM]

I'm also going to throw in my support for this, (not that I have any real clout). It would really be a life saver for parties with international friends. I've been using VLC for a good year and a half, and if it had dual subs it'd be damn near perfect.

[phoberos]

the implementation of this feature would be very helpful for many people. Even an informal support, like a special name for the subtitle files which would enable the feature, without tampering with the interface, would do.

[VLC_help]

With 0.9.0 better SSA and ASS support, it could be possible to combine two text based subtitle files to one .ssa/.ass file (show one subtitle top and another at bottom). I am not sure if there is tool that could create these, but I am quite sure it would be quite easy make one.

[Susanna777]

This sounds like an awesome idea. I've taken some French and I would love to be able to read English captions and French subtitles at the same time.

[ryann]

I also support as much as possible this idea that has never come true since this feature requested in late 2006: https://trac.videolan.org/vlc/ticket/824
Is there any way to make this old ticked be revived?

I do agree to all the advantages that this would give when watching a foreign movie
and taking benefit from having simultaneously
- the original subtitles (to learn!)
- and our native language subtitles (when you miss a word!).

Please! Please! Please!

P.S. By the way, would it be possible to imagine a vote system in the forum where users could propose a new feature and others would simply vote for it (maybe after registration or even lighter by allowing only one vote per IP address)?
Then the most waited features would be clearly identified...

[Aeneas]

"Closed Captions" equals "Subtitles", in the US broadcast TV media.
Subtitles is the term used in Europe broadcasting, and on movie DVDs.

[VLC_help]

P.S. By the way, would it be possible to imagine a vote system in the forum where users could propose a new feature and others would simply vote for it (maybe after registration or even lighter by allowing only one vote per IP address)?
Then the most waited features would be clearly identified...

It would give feeling of false hope to people Usually devs do features they need or want. Not the ones that get most votes in poll.

[Aeneas]

P.S. By the way, would it be possible to imagine a vote system in the forum where users could propose a new feature and others would simply vote for it (maybe after registration or even lighter by allowing only one vote per IP address)?
Then the most waited features would be clearly identified...

It would give feeling of false hope to people Usually devs do features they need or want. Not the ones that get most votes in poll.

So are you going to pat them on the back for that ?
Most software development is not neutral: it either improves or does damage.
Often people are just trying to do something simple and trivial that they can put on a resume, for solely personal reason.
Playing around with the User Interface of this program over the past year while improving nothing,
or the crap changes in Internet Explorer 7 fall into that category.
No improvement, but the 'developer' or 'rearranger' claims he did some real solid work on his resume.
Who wins ?

The truth is that developers actually likethe adulation of knowing they provided something useful, whether paid or not.
That claim is also good for their resume.
When developers fail to enhance and improve, it is not usually for lack of trying.
They simply did not understand the existing code within the program code base and were forced to simply 'rearrange' things, around the edges.
However, even picking around the edges, such a person could do damage and introduce Bugs.

[snabba_twekko]

Yes this feature would be so cool! I'm currently learning language and to be able to view two sets of subtitles at the same time would be fantastic! The reason is that being able to see for example spanish and english subtitles at the same time gives me good posibilities to learn sort of "word by word". This is where using computers and digital players comes into its own right, when it facilitates all these different needs.

The ideal situation would be to not only be able to use different subtitle files for simple video files like .avi or so - but to also be able to use the multiple subtitle tracks of DVDs.

Is this a potentially complicated feature to implement, and would it slow down the program or other processes? I myself have no knowledge of programming, unfortunately.

[Aeneas]

Trivial.
Putting the subtitles/Closed Captions in two Windows windows would be trivial.
The only other issue would be to find and purchase the rights to a cheap language translation engine for Spanish, Italian, French, German, Portuguese, for starters.
Then Japanese, Chinese, Korean, Hindi, Russian, in the 2nd phase.

The TV Tuner manufacturers claim that Microsoft's TV Tuner MCE software already is capable of taking the Closed Captions and saving them in the stored AV file and then playing back the CC during AV playback.
Thus, the ability to obtain the CC data from the Tuner device driver has been solved.

[snabba_twekko]

Trivial.
Putting the subtitles/Closed Captions in two Windows windows would be trivial.
The only other issue would be to find and purchase the rights to a cheap language translation engine for Spanish, Italian, French, German, Portuguese, for starters.
Then Japanese, Chinese, Korean, Hindi, Russian, in the 2nd phase.

The TV Tuner manufacturers claim that Microsoft's TV Tuner MCE software already is capable of taking the Closed Captions and saving them in the stored AV file and then playing back the CC during AV playback.
Thus, the ability to obtain the CC data from the Tuner device driver has been solved.

I realize now that my entry was a bit fuzzy indeed. I'm not talking about a translator like this, even though it would actually be quite cool. What I mean is a simple feature where I can use two subtitle tracks at the same time when playing a video. For example if I have a video in DVD-format, then I should be able to view two of the included subtitle tracks at the same time, when the movie is playing. To have for example spanish in the bottom of the screen area and english in the top for comparison and help, would be awesome! What do you think about this kind of feature, would it be fairly easy to implement as well?

[jeffbbz]

Wow, Finally other people have started posting and requesting this. I thought this topic was long dead, as I have been waiting forever. Of course I'm not a developer so I really don't know about the difficulty level of this, but it has always seemed to me to be a fairly easy and simple thing (dual subs on a file that is, on a dvd would seem harder) that has just never been implimented because most people either don't want it or wouldn't use it regularly. (although it seems that this topic has been viewed quite a large number of times!)

There are however among us, those who either want it for fun and/or language learning reasons (sounds nice) or even like me who really needs this! (not that mine is more important its just I really really need it)

As I mentioned in my earlier post, I live with lots of friends from different countries most of whom require their native language as a subtitle to watch a movie, therefore watching a movie together is often a struggle or impossible. Even with my girlfriend who needs korean, we can only generally watch movies in english with korean subs, or korean movies with english subs. I have resorted to english hardsubbing dvds i rip and then putting korean subs on top, a minor hassle generally, but this of course only works with ones I have ripped which is less than 1/3 of my collection and a tiny fraction of whats available. I have thought about making my own dual titles with jubler but it doesn't open sami files, which are what most korean subs are in.

There has to be a dev out there with either the same problem as me, or the interest of the others, or as a last resort, just wants to do a couple of us a (maybe?) quickish favor.?

Let's make dual subs a reality! For that matter, VLC has always been a little meager on the subtitle options (at least compared to other windows players, how about adding some more to them in general?

[Aeneas]

I do not want to see any text within the TV Window.
The Closed Captions text should be in separate scrollable, Ctrl-F searchable and copy/paste-able windows.
Look at all those good things that come from putting the text in a standard Windows window.

This feature should be implemented with an ability to translate the text of the TV show when needed.
I doubt that all movies contain Subtitles/CC for all the major languages in the world.
A language translation ability is essential for proper implementation of this feature.

Actually, I am surprised that Microsoft has yet to supply at least a coarse language translation mechanism in their development tools. Feed it text flagged as one language, and have it translate to the requested target language, passing through untouched any word it cannot translate.

[VLC_help]

You can't do proper machine translation for subtitles. You can ask that from any subtitle-scene group. Poor subtitles steal focus from actual video because they are real annoyance with bad grammar.

And there are some limitations for double subtitle feature because of their specs. For example DVD subtitles, CC subtitles and ASS/SSA subtitle have certain position where they should be shown. That is why developing working algorithm that can combine multiple subtitles together and keeping combined out still readable isn't easy.

Things are easier with SRT/SUB subtitles because they don't have position info, so first subtitle could be placed to bottom of the video and second one to top of the video.

[rooley]

I just want to thank everyone for reviving this topic that is really important to me. I especially want to thank VLC_help for explaining some of the issues. My hope is this dialogue will lead us to further development of our hopes and eventually lead to implementation on a basic level of displaying multiple subtitles. For me the ideal situation is a multi-display setup in which subtitles can be positioned wherever one pleases. So I would play the video full-screen on my large monitor and have both subtitles running on my adjacent monitor which is smaller. This way the text wouldn't overlap any video. And for my single-monitor friends, there could be subtitles playing on each of the horizontal black bars present in widescreen movies.

[Aeneas]

You can't do proper machine translation for subtitles. You can ask that from any subtitle-scene group. Poor subtitles steal focus from actual video because they are real annoyance with bad grammar.

And there are some limitations for double subtitle feature because of their specs. For example DVD subtitles, CC subtitles and --please stay polite--/SSA subtitle have certain position where they should be shown. That is why developing working algorithm that can combine multiple subtitles together and keeping combined out still readable isn't easy.

Things are easier with SRT/SUB subtitles because they don't have position info, so first subtitle could be placed to bottom of the video and second one to top of the video.

Machine translation should be a powerful addition to the visual information that the viewer is already watching. Even if the translation is poor, it will give a general idea of what is being communicated, and that combined with the visual contextual information will normally be enough to achieve comprehension.

Closed Captions/Subtitles should not obscure the TV Window picture.
That is the main reason Closed Captions are unpopular and the default mode should be to remove them from the picture to a separate window where they can be searched, copied and scrolled.