Max simultaneous streams? Live Stream 24/7 ? More...

About encoding, codec settings, muxers and filter usage
Mel_3
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Max simultaneous streams? Live Stream 24/7 ? More...

Postby Mel_3 » 29 Apr 2009 18:33

Sure these questions have been posted a zillion times before so sorry for just jumping in and reposting...

but we are on such a short deadline we must ask if anyone can save us research time and be kind enough to answer some quick start questions.

1 - To broadcast live video on the net what software must our server be running? Can we run it on a Linux Server? Any special requirments or distro of Linux?

2 - How many simultanious streams can the VLC stream? 1,000 ? More? Less? How many?

3 - Two above probably depends also on the server hardware... how many streams can we expect on a typical intel or amd machine... single core, dual core, quad core?

4 - Can the clients view the video with Windows Media Player or any other typical video viewing softwar they may have on their machines ?

5 - If VLC is not suitable for broadcasting live streaming video to a large auidence what do you guys suggest we look at?

6 - Can VLC also be used for setting up streaming like YouTube... where the pre-recorded video files are on the server and clients click to watch... and the video starts playing almost immideately.

Thanks to anyone who can answer the above questions and maybe a few follow-up questions.

Refer us to spec's and other links as needed but a 'forum conversation' will really be helpful since our backs are to the wall for a meeting later today :)

Thanks again folks.

Jean-Baptiste Kempf
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Re: Max simultaneous streams? Live Stream 24/7 ? More...

Postby Jean-Baptiste Kempf » 29 Apr 2009 22:43

1) vlc. Yes. debian.
2) depends on the hardware, the configuration and the setup If you need to encode or not, etc...
3) same as above
4) Yes. Use mms/asf/wmv/wva for WMP
5) large audience means?
6) VOD? yes. but using apache is better.
Jean-Baptiste Kempf
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If you want an answer to your question, just be specific and precise. Don't use Private Messages.

Mel_3
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Re: Max simultaneous streams? Live Stream 24/7 ? More...

Postby Mel_3 » 30 Apr 2009 04:06

1 - hardware - assume some ok hardware... quad processors - lots of ram - etc
2 - if encode = yes... can software stream to 1,000 plus clients at the same time? more? estimate of how many more?
3 - if encode = no... I assume it could stream to more... is this true?
4 - would it work like this...
... we send a single video stream to encoder software...
... the encoded stream is then feed to a server running the VLC streaming software...
... which creates the multiple streams...
... if not how?
5 - if we dont let VLC do the encoding... which encoder do you suggest?

Really appriceate some help with this as need quick start and research time is limited... so we are on a short learning curve.

Thanks again.

popper
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Re: Max simultaneous streams? Live Stream 24/7 ? More...

Postby popper » 04 May 2009 00:28

1 - hardware - assume some ok hardware... quad processors - lots of ram - etc
2 - if encode = yes... can software stream to 1,000 plus clients at the same time? more? estimate of how many more?
3 - if encode = no... I assume it could stream to more... is this true?
4 - would it work like this...
... we send a single video stream to encoder software...
... the encoded stream is then feed to a server running the VLC streaming software...
... which creates the multiple streams...
... if not how?
5 - if we dont let VLC do the encoding... which encoder do you suggest?

Really appriceate some help with this as need quick start and research time is limited... so we are on a short learning curve.

Thanks again.
well ,thats the price you pay, there always is one you know, your so concerned about the "Max simultaneous streams?" and the "Live Stream 24/7 ? More..."

that you totally missed the main points you NEED to consider.....

What codec, what container, what end point devices are used to decode this stream.....

not to mention is this commercial, or community,for profit. for non profit etc etc.......

are you just another low grade SD old Youtube before they finally came to realise that AVC IS THE FUTURE...,or werse, thinking like those old antiquated Mpeg2 low grade low bitrate WMV encoder outfits ?.......

lets talk current and long term future, your codecs should be simple, nothing but AVC/H.264/x264 is valid for commercial companies looking to really innovate today, (if your thinking Mpeg2 today forget it , dont even bother for even the short term) also as the worlds whole markets move over to so called IPTV and TCP centralised/Co-Location based kit, again Transport Stream embeded AVC/AAC is the only real (streaming) choice today.....

so what are your other choices to make , encoding to widescreen resolutions seems to be a wise option for any real traction today, people just expect it , especially now Youtube finally moved over to it, alongside AVC, and their masses of freeware x264 software encoder backend hardware farms...

the basic choices to keep (HD) widescreen ratios when you get the choice to Encode your content are 848x480 (16:9) ,1280x720 (16:9) , 1360x768 (16:9) , and OC 1920x1080 (16:9), but we dont know if your commercial, were you will be based, Co-Location, university etc......

so you may only need/want CIF style 25fps (never use less than 24fps EVER... ,no matter what it says on the tin, 14fps mobile is pants i tell you) but i cant be bothered to work out the widescreen version No's of PAL CIF (352x288) or PAL D1/DV (720 x 576) , 848x480 (16:9) seems like a good choice for the close to D1 (PAL SD) option, and its offically (just) HD (and you can upscale D1 to this fine) that many of the worlds ISP grade download connections can manage today, Encoded at an average of say 1.3 Mbit/s 848x480 (16:9) AVC/AAC video/Audio stream so keep that as your long term base HQ AVC FEED.

so i advise AVC/AAC, 848x480 (16:9) at around 1.3Mbit/s encoding for your HQ D1/HD, assuming a good quality D1 SD or HD video as your source, you can also get AVCHD cams today, these are AVC/H.264 cams, so you can use them as is, but you will probably need to downscale them to your base AVC widescreen , then you can use commercial AVC realtime encoders
see: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=132006 http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=95939

or, if your some university final year guys on your final year projects as i suspect :wink: then you can take a walk over to the IT hardware classes and ask the other final year guys/girls there about making you a few prototype FPGA AVC REALTIME encoders capable of AVC/H.264 encoding to the 848x480 (16:9) at least see: http://www.techonline.com/learning/techpaper/216300025

OC most of the commercial grade realtime AVC/H.254 encoders/Transcoders give out several output resolutions at the same time, so you could have both HD ,SD AND PIP versions on the fly to feed into your streaming servers apps...

for everyone else including NON profits, and community Co-Operatives, you still keep the AVC/AAC inside TS containers (transport streams, they are not really true containers, but close enough for this thread) and you perhaps can get away with PAL CIF (sometimes called PIP [picture in picture] 352x288, AVC from 300Kbit/s to 900Kbit/s) or its nearest rounded widescreen , whatever that turns out to be ?, basicly keep to base16 as in always devideable by 16 no matter what your final screensize as AVC/H.264/x264 really likes it that way.....the higher the bitrate the better your HDTV connected 360,PS3, popcorn hour etc can upscale and get good quality viewing without to much blockyness .....

OC you could always get stuck in (pay a programmer or 3 to)write the needed generic Multicast tunnels and a controlling protocol of your choice for VLC, and DO some SERIOUS work on the almost unusable VLC webpage server interface(s) to bring them upto scratch, Ohh and extend the API to give you far more remote control of the VLC services ( a single "cross platform" generic yet visually appealing rebol view GUI VLC controller script perhaps, see my other posts if your a good script/code writer) you intend using for these masses of (multicast tunneled) Max simultaneous streams? Live Stream 24/7 ? More... :roll:

or use wastful (more bandwidth.more CPU power, more rack space kit etc) Unicast as your only real choice if you cant bypass your ISPs filtered Multicast restrictions if thats your mass sim end users.....

why PAL CIF or PAL D1, simple its a real fixed rounded framerate,25,50,100,and the future 200 , non of this old crazy US NTSC something.point whatever, hell they are just starting to realise their film rated 24fps is the far better option now all the worlds all gone digital, and even the US HD tvs can play the real PAL framerates today so use them :geek:


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