support of native mpeg4 ASP stream in MKV

[MatMaul]

Hello !
When I play this video with vlc (it's a part of the video ~5mn) : http://rapidshare.de/files/21515791/lotr1-pb.mkv.html

I obtain that :

No problem with MPC+ffdshow+haali splitter

I use the last snapshot of vlc on windows xp.

[Teetrinker]

I had too no luck with native Mpeg 4 ASP in mkv. I got the same playback problem some time ago:
viewtopic.php?t=15352&highlight=

Here playback seems more ore less to work with xine-lib, not sure if some frames are missing. But xine has problems with 5.1 aac audio.

[MatMaul]

anyone can add this bug in Trac please ?

[MatMaul]

up

[MatMaul]

up

[Teetrinker]

Which tool did you use to encode the video - xvid_encraw ?

[bond]

this sample has been created with mkvmerge, which is known to not create correct native asp mkv files ___from avi or raw sources___
my tests have shown that mkvmerge creates correct native asp from .mp4 sources

xvid_encraw and the haali mkv merger create correct native asp samples, but videolan also doesnt handle those correctly

its a known vlc bug i have already told robux4

i think its maybe caused by the vol not being attached to every keyframe as its done in avi/vfw compatibility mode

[DJ]

No problem with MPC+ffdshow+haali splitter

I have not found anything else that does support this. In fact in trying to find support, I had MPC lock up twice using this file (A very unusual and difficult task). Looks like you are making a proprietary file that at the moment has little to no support in anything else. If this was your goal you have achieved it well!

Find another hobby please!

[MatMaul]

like bond said, vlc doesn't play correctly mkv file with mpeg4 asp native stream.

I have no problem to play this file with mpc and mplayer play it too !
If you have the last build of haali splitter AND the internal mkv splitter of mpc desactived, I think you will not have problem to read this file.

So I don't think the problem is my file, but a bug in vlc.

If you want other samples I can upload it.

My file is not a illegal file, it's my own encode and I use regular tools to create it : xvid_encraw and mkvmerge.

[MatMaul]

this sample has been created with mkvmerge, which is known to not create correct native asp mkv files ___from avi or raw sources___
my tests have shown that mkvmerge creates correct native asp from .mp4 sources

I think mkvmerge creates correct native asp from .mkv sources (mkv ouput of xvid_encraw) too, so I think my file is OK.

[DJ]

OK! I will try again! The only thin I found that will support this is FFdshow witch I hate with a passion! This is not a standard and at the moment there is nothing else that supports this. You can talk about players all day long as anything that is a direct show player should play assuming you have FFdshow installed and setup. VLC is NOT a dshow player!

While I agree that every format should be compatible with every other format and containers should not make difference, that's not the way it is in the real world! You are most welcome to take this to the Feature Requests section of this forum, but keep in mind that even if the VLC team were to agree to your request, support is not going to be added today or tomorrow for that matter. Also please note that your file shows no Message errors in the last two versions of VLC, so it just looks like BAD ENCODING!

I forgot to mention I tried to transcode your file. If the file was a standard MP4v it should have worked but it didn't. I ended up with audio and no video in 2 utilities.

[MatMaul]

OK! I will try again! The only thin I found that will support this is FFdshow witch I hate with a passion! This is not a standard and at the moment there is nothing else that supports this. You can talk about players all day long as anything that is a direct show player should play assuming you have FFdshow installed and setup. VLC is NOT a dshow player!

mplayer isn't a dshow player and it play it fine (I use celtic_druid build and MPUI). mplayer use also libavcodec to decode the file, so I think it's a problem in the mkv parser.

I don't want you fixed it (or add it if you think it's a new feature) now, but just add an entry in trac, like with an other bug with ordered chapters I have reported (bug added in trac with a link to the forum).

We have a discussion about that in doom9 forum : http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=98469&page=26

a help if anyone want to fix it :

When I used --engage native_mpeg4, it gave me a native mkv file but there was something strange; the VOL information was appended to each P frame preceeding an I frame. In a native mpeg4 matroska file that information should only occur once in the CodecPrivate section. If I had to guess, I would say VLC isn't reading this at all and is relying on the information being present in the stream which is the wrong way to do it.

I don't use --engage native_mpeg4, I use directly a native mpeg4 matroska file.

[Teetrinker]

OK! I will try again! The only thin I found that will support this is FFdshow witch I hate with a passion!

I don't think that anybody want to know if you hate FFdshow or not.

This is not a standard and at the moment there is nothing else that supports this.

The above linked mkv file can be played with xine. It may be broken, but like BOND mentioned VLC seems to have problems with native ASP in MKV files.

You can talk about players all day long as anything that is a direct show player should play assuming you have FFdshow installed and setup. VLC is NOT a dshow player!

I am sure Bond, MatMaul and me know that already

While I agree that every format should be compatible with every other format and containers should not make difference, that's not the way it is in the real world! You are most welcome to take this to the Feature Requests section of this forum, but keep in mind that even if the VLC team were to agree to your request, support is not going to be added today or tomorrow for that matter.

We just wanted to inform the VLC developer that there are problems with native ASP in MKV, because we heard from robux4 that VLC should sopport it.

If there is still intrest to investigate this problem ask MatMaul for a new sample. I don't need native ASP MKV playback, I am more a MP4 fan.

[DJ]

My hate for FFdshow and your suggestions does not negate the fact that this post and or request would be better placed in the FEATURE REQUESTS section of this forum. But just for your information I hate codec packs too! What a wonderful way to screw up dshow and turn more people on th VLC.

Perhaps a little more on the beaten path than off would be support under FFmpeg, then there would actually be something to talk about.

[MatMaul]

OK so DJ you are a moderator of this forum, please deplace this post on the "feature requests" part.

I change the title of my post to a request.

Thanks

[JordonK]

Been searching around about this today, just happened to open an mkv created by meGUI with a native ASP stream in VLC and noticed the macroblock problem.

File renders fine in MPC with *Either* ffdshow or xVid decoder inserted into the graph. Built graphs to check as well. Remuxed to new mkv w/ mkvmerge, same situation. xvid_encraw writes perfect asp streams.

Mr. strangely sensitive and angry DJ sir, this is a bug with the otherwise great VLC. So unless 'work properly' is a feature request, this thread I do believe is in the right place.

Thanks.

[Guest]

Has anyone ever noticed that QuickTime's ASP doesn't play using XviD and I don't believe it works with FFdshow either. I know it doesn't work under DivX compatibility. I have trouble finding a front end. Haali doesn't support it and Neither does Gabest. Windows dshow won't support it natively. Would someone care to explain this.

When I make an ASP using an MP4 container with VLC, QuickTime plays the file and if I play a QuickTime ASP file in VLC, it plays the file. Doesn't anyone find this interesting but me? If this is a bug then lots of people should be experiencing more problems with other codecs and players other than VLC. Instead I get comments about a freeware program called MeGUI which most people never heard of. Yes! I know what it is, but that's not the point. Instead I'm pegged as the angry one?

May I remind everyone that there has never been good compatibility between QuickTime and Microsoft's dhsow and about the only people that had any real success with this was 3ivx, which BTW has compatibility to VLC. So I will ask the stupid question again, where is the problem?

Perhaps I could word the stupid question this way, Why would anyone believe that replacing the container would resolve the issue?

DJ

[Guest]

mplayer isn't a dshow player and it play it fine (I use celtic_druid build and MPUI). mplayer use also libavcodec to decode the file, so I think it's a problem in the mkv parser.

My MPlayer and MPUI does not play your file! If a special version does it just shows how non standard your file is.

[Guest]

Perhaps I could word the stupid question this way, Why would anyone believe that replacing the container would resolve the issue?

DJ

When native MPEG4 ASP is stored in mkv, information about the stream (sometimes called the VOL info or VOL header) should be stored in a part of the file called codecprivate. VLC doesn't seem to be reading this information and sending it to the mpeg4 decoder, hence the decoder assumes default settings for things like qpel, gmc etc. which causes errors.
The files follow the standards laid out by the matroska developers; the player does not.

[DJ]

VLC always picks up the latest sources and they are compiled at runtime.

[DJ]

I spent a little time looking at your file today.

1. Direct Show! For front ends splitters or demuxers. Yes Haali does support it but Gabest doesn't, neither does Nero or 3ivx. Then the is a problem finding a decoder. It seems XviD, DiviX, 3ivx or Nero will not decode using the Haali front end the filters will not connect. So FFdshow may be the only viable solution for dshow.

2. MPlayer's latest build 8 also does not play your file. The Celtic Druid build dated Aug 14 06 does play the file but seems to have seeking problems and the subs are also very strange as all I could get was French 2 out of 4 sub tracks and it seemed iffy. The audio tracks did switch and seemed to be in sync for the bit of dialog in this short clip.

Conclusion. You are creating a (in my opinion) a proprietary video that has very limited support. If you want this video to play you will need to petition all the major players and codec vendors for support. Something people tried to do for years with QuickTime compatibility and has never been fully realized.

All the best of luck!
DJ

If you want this moved to feature requests.I would suggest rewording it and doing it yourself.

[The DJ]

I talked to matroska developers and they advise against using the Native mode for MPEG-4 ASP

[The DJ]

I did fix a couple of bugs in this area yesterday btw.
Might be better now.

[MatMaul]

I did fix a couple of bugs in this area yesterday btw.
Might be better now.

Yes it's better now !
The picture is now good !
But I can't seek.

thanks a lot !

[MatMaul]

Oups, sorry it's my fault.
The sample I used didn't have cues entries.

All works good when I remux with mkvmerge, so they are no problems with the sample present in my fist post (lotr-pb.mkv).

Thanks a lot !!