5.1 audio changes after update 2.1.1

[TheDrummer]

Since all I read was about the same issue.
And this is NOT about

How can I set the sound to 5.1?

It's about confused audio channels in VLC.
I thought, it would help the Devs to know, that not only the "digital out" of Surround Sound is messed up but also the channel by channel out with an Interface.
It's all about usecases when searching for bugs, isn't it?

[misirlou]

It won't be fixed before 2.2.0

Any source that it will?
Guess I am sticking to 2.0.8 for a while and ignore the update screen

[Jean-Baptiste Kempf]

OK. I've tried 2.2.0 nighly - it is not fixed yet:

I've noticed major issues with 10.8.5.
My Audio Monitors are set up for ITU 775 in 5.1 Surround.
So is OSX's Audio Midi Setup for the MOTU 896 mk3 Audio Interface.
Quicktimeplayer 7.6.6 plays right.
Quick Time Player 10.2 confused channels of the 5.1 Output as well (2+3).

But VLC 2.1.2 is worse!
Not a single channel is right!
For L C R LFE Rl Rr the channels should be 1 3 2 4 5 6.
IF VLC would do that again, it'll be fixed for good.

I've tried VLC 2.0.5 - it works fine in Surround - with the same setup of course!

So please fix this - you got enough hints now

You have a very specific audio card, on OSX. Please file a proper bug report with all infos in.

[TheDrummer]

Well, actually that's an external audio interface - no audio card.
Since everyone here has the same problem just fix "their" problem and mine will be fixed, too
Once again: It's all about the Audio channels - if you match the output with ITU-Rules, it works with every Audio Interface that has 6 or more channels.
I don't know how to "file a proper bug report" - make a button in the app and i'll do it - otherwise it's too time-consuming learning how to and why and stuff…

[Jean-Baptiste Kempf]

external audio interface is an audio card. And no, unless we got more info, we can't fix it.

[IncognitoGeek]

Hi all!

Found this solution on another site. I'm currently using 5.1 speaker setup and my VLC is now v.2.1.4


1. Press Ctrl+P to bring up preferences.
2. At the bottom of the right-hand navigation select the All radio-button under the Show settings area (bottom left of the interface).
3. Now expand the Audio tree, select Out Modules and select DirectX.
4. Select your "Output device" and "Speaker configuration" from the drop down menus.
5. Restart VLC.

Link to original post:
http://superuser.com/questions/292911/h ... vlc-to-5-1

[guit]

I would like too this menu back. Why devs don't understand how useful it was?

Now to get the same effect (toggleing 5.1 and stereo), I need to go in Settings and toggle "Use SPDIF if possible", and then restart video.. It's a pain, when before I just needed to click Stereo or 5.1 in that menu.


For example:

- I'm doing things on my PC, while a 5.1 movie is playing in background, but I want only stereo because on my PC there is only 2 speakers, so I change in that menu, from 5.1 to Stereo.
- Now I want to relax and go on the couch to watch that movie... So I switch PC display from PC monitor to TV screen, click a button on my Audio amplifier to switch from the 2 PC speakers to the 2 Front Speaker of my 5.1 system that is around my TV... and previously I just needed to click in that menu to change from Stereo to 5.1...

Please make this menu appear again, or maybe make it an option such as "enable audio output menu" or something. Or even better (at least for me it would be perfect), an item in the Audio menu of the main interface titled: "Toggle between Stereo and 5.1", with ability to set a keyboard shortcut to it

Thanks for consideration

[Mcooper]

It won't be fixed before 2.2.0

Does this mean the menu WILL be added back in some version after 2.2 ?
I am quite surprised at the apparent resistance from the developers to putting this back in. The fact that the same functionality can be achieved elsewhere within the app/operating system (and I'm not convinced it can) is really irrelevant; having the options available from the main app was convenient for your users and they liked it.
The bottom line is if your users think the option is unavailable/broken, then it IS.
My use case (for what it is worth) is that whenever I play anything I check in this menu to see what options are available. More often than not the default option is not the best one and I select something else. Usually the issue is that 5.1 is available as an option, but not selected, so I have to force it. It may be that I can do this forcing by going into preferences or the operating system and making some change, but I have never managed to. Even so, being able to do it directly from the main menu is obviously more convenient and even if checking reveals that the best audio choice was made automatically, I like the fact that I have confirmed this rather than watching the whole program wondering if I am missing out on the best audio experience.
I have downgraded to 2.0.8 and will have to stay at that version until the menu returns.
Martin

[Rémi Denis-Courmont]

There exists use cases for both definitions of the audio devices menu. All the pros and cons have been discussed at enough length already across several topics on the VideoLAN.org fora. With only one menu for two incompatible use cases, consensus cannot be reached ever on what is ultimately an arbitrary design decision. I think that the new definition is more logicial, and has become more important in the current times than the old definition (notably due to the increased prevalence of multiple audio devices incurred by HDMI, Bluetooth and USB).

Bluntly, as the effective maintainer of the VLC audio output stack I decided to keep VLC 2.2 as VLC 2.1 with regards to the semantics of the audio device menu. As I have not seen any new argument, I have not changed my mind. So I plan to keep it that way going forward in version 3.0 and beyond for the time being as well.

VLC being open-source, those in disagreement are free to make their own VLC version with the old audio menu semantics, or with two separate menus. To date, I have yet to see any attempt at even making a reasonable patch, so I can only gather the issue is not all that serious.

[Mcooper]

To date, I have yet to see any attempt at even making a reasonable patch, so I can only gather the issue is not all that serious.

That's an odd way to measure the success of a new feature. I wonder how many of your users have the ability/time to start re-coding their apps every time they don't like a new feature. Anyway there is no need - 2.0.8 works perfectly for me and I suspect for lots of other people.
I'd be interested to know how many people have downloaded the old version recently.

With only one menu for two incompatible use cases

Add another menu ?

is ultimately an arbitrary design decision.

Arbitrary ? So the decision was "Based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system"
I suggest that there are better ways to make design decisions.

As I have not seen any new argument

How many people have to raise the old arguments before you reconsider ?
Martin

[Rémi Denis-Courmont]

Obvious troll is obvious.

[Mcooper]

Absolutely not a troll !
I have been using VLC for years and it is a brilliant application. I have it on all my computers and I recommend it to everyone.
But this one feature that I used to use every time I opened VLC has been removed arbitrarily (your choice of word).
If there was some reason why the feature had to go then fair enough, but the only reason I have seen given so far is that the menu is used for something else. So I ask again - is it possible to add an extra menu ?
In my previous post I:
Asked if it were possible to judge how many people were resorting to the previous working version.
Asked how many people needed to complain about the issue before you reconsidered your decision.
Questioned if it was a sound design decision to remove a feature arbitrarily.
I think that all of the above are valid questions and was quite surprised to find that asking them made me a troll.
I asked them because:
I would like to you reconsider your decision and put back this very valuable feature.
I would like to confirm that adding the feature back in as an extra menu is as simple as it sounds as I might need to do my own patch in the future and I don't want to waste my time attempting something that will turn out to be immpossible.
At the moment 2.0.8 works perfectly for me so I won't bother now.
I would have appologised for the tone of the previous email if thought I had said anything wrong, but I genuinely think that all of my comments and questions were perfectly valid.
Martin

[Rémi Denis-Courmont]

What "old arguments"? The only "argument" given is that VLC should be able to work around mismatched system-level speaker configuration. Meanwhile a number of arguments were provided in multiple threads as to why the change is sensible and in many cases necessary.

That and questioning our open-source ways of working, amounts indeed to trolling.

[Mcooper]

What "old arguments"?

The old argument that some people found the menu useful and are unhappy to see it go.

a number of arguments were provided in multiple threads as to why the change is sensible and in many cases necessary.

I have absolutely no problem with this. I am perfectly happy to accept that the new menu is more usefull /sensible/necessary  than the one it replaced. If it was a straight choice between the two then yes you have made a perfectly sensible development decision.
But the question I keep asking and I have seen asked by others is this. Is it a straight choice between the two or could we have both menu items on the audio menu ? At 2.0.8 there are 7 options under "Audio". It would seem straightforward enough to put back the "old" Audio Device menu as an eighth option. You could call it "Old Audio Device Menu", although I'm sure someone could come up with a better name. There are already thirteen options under "Video", so eight options under audio doesn't seem excessive. So far I have not seen an answer provided to this question by the developers.
So, i ask again - is it as straight forward as it seems to add an eighth option to the audio menu containing the "old" Audio Device menu?
I would like to know this, not just out of idle curiosity (though I am curious), but also because in the future I might consider coding a patch and I don't want to be wasting my time attempting the impossible. That is also why I would be interested to know if a lot of people feel affected by this change. The more people who feel affected and the easier it is to add the menu back in as an extra item, the more likely I am to make the change.

That and questioning our open-source ways of working, amounts indeed to trolling.

I am not sure what "That" refers to in the clause above but I am sorry that you feel trolled by my statement that removing a feature from an application arbitrarily is not a sound design decision. I will not restate that opinion in this forum or question your ways of working ever again. I am very much a supporter of open-source development.
Martin

[Rémi Denis-Courmont]

I don't know how straightforward it looks to you. To me, the fact that nobody has bothered to even try (unless you count suggesting a revert as trying) proves that it is not straightforward.

[CaiB]

Made an account to post this:

I'm trying to listen to stereo mp3s on my 5.1 system. As of now, the sound is only being sent to the Front Left and Front Right channels. I'd like to have all of my speakers used (Or even just the front two + center + back two, as the sub would require additional processing, and my speakers have this built-in). Why would I have 6 speakers if I'm only using 2 of them most of the time?

I would write a plugin/patch to fix this, but I don't see why users of an application would be required to re-implement features that were removed by the developers, even after getting requests to re-add the feature.

[JSLover]

Sorry but I have so far seen mostly three "cases" for the old menu

4) Forced downmixing for poorly mixed audio tracks.
This is a corner case.

...I have to disagree, this is NOT a "corner case", this is a common case...I would have preferred to link to about 5-10 YouTube videos where the Audio is messed up, but I haven't gathered those links yet...but even without those links, it's still true: LOTS of YouTube videos are messed up, with either ALL of the Audio on the Left or Right channel OR with SOME of the Audio on the Left or Right channel & other parts of the Audio/Video are fine...so the option to choose Stereo Mode: Left / Right is not a solution, cuz you are only getting 1 channel of the Audio instead of both channels mixed into Mono (this difference is important).

You can work around it in several different ways, with OS settings, VLC settings, VLC audio filters...

...those are all "permanent" solutions to a TEMPORARY problem! We only need to correct ONE video. Why should we dig deep into the OS or VLC prefs, save changes, restart VLC, watch one video, then UNDO all those changes? Why? Yes, those prefs are GREAT if you wanna make Mono permanent, but they are not great, if you just wanna fix 1 video & only temporarily.

This use case is not much less relevant...

..."not much less" or "much less"?

...than selecting the output device is. Nowadays, multiple output devices is the norm, not the exception (HDMI, BlueTooth, USB, S/PDIF...). So the repurposing of the Audio device will not be reverted.

...no no no, you must be misunderstanding the possible solutions...please DO NOT revert the Audio Device menu (you weren't going to, but I'm just trying to make my intent clear)...it is much more useful as it is now...however, you are ignoring the feature of Forcing Mono on a temporary basis.

Proper surround downmixing by the Audio channels (a.k.a. Stereo mode)...

...I'm not sure what this means, do you really mean "surround", as in surround sound?...what about simple "downmixing" of Stereo to Mono (as VLC already could do as of 2.0.8)...& can still do as of 2.1.5 (if you dig deep in prefs & FORCE the setting to apply to all videos).

My proposed fix: simply put a Mono option in the Stereo Mode menu

1. Add a Force Mono (or just call it "Mono") menuitem to the current (VLC 2.1.5) Stereo Mode menu
2. Rename the Stereo Mode menu to Audio Channels, since it now lets you choose Mono as well as Stereo options (optional)

...the backend of the Force Mono menuitem should not need to be written, it should already exist: it should simply "do whatever those VLC prefs do", except on a temporary (1 video) basis. VLC can ALREADY Force Mono (deep in the prefs), but not from a simple menuitem. All the menuitem needs to do is: trigger/turn on any of the possible ways to get Mono Audio, that already exists in VLC & restart the Audio device/stream/output.

If it's not obvious, my new Stereo Mode menu (optionally renamed to Audio Channels) would/could also contain the other old options: 5.1, 2 Front 2 Rear, Stereo, Mono...& anything else that can be considered an "Audio Channel". It really is a matter of "how many Audio Channels do you want?": 1 (Mono), 2 (Stereo), 3 (not needed???), 4 (2 Front 2 Rear), 5.1 (2F2R+Center+Subwoofer). I think my Audio Channels menu makes a lot of sense: the ability to override your Audio Channels setting on a per-video, temporary basis. You would STILL set your default/global Audio options in the OS or in VLC prefs, but you could OVERRIDE them temporarily, for just 1 video. It's the best of both worlds: Keep the new Audio Device menu & add all the missing options to the Stereo Mode/Audio Channels menu.

Having the option to temporarily Force Mono is NOT DIFFERENT from the options we already have to temporarily force the Aspect Ratio or change Cropping: those options only exist to temporarily make a video "watchable": to overcome the flaws in the person who made the video.

Other than perhaps confusion (us all not understanding each other's point of view), I cannot understand the VLC Devs resistance to this feature. Yes, you re-wrote the Audio Device menu & you made it better, thank you for that ...but that re-write had 1 unfortunate casualty: the Mono menuitem.

• Do I want you to rip out your new Audio Device menu...putting it back like it was? NO!
  Do I want you to add some type of menuitem to be able to Force Mono on 1 video? YES.
  Do I want to have to change a global setting in the OS or in VLC prefs to fix 1 video temporarily? NO!

[tobisama]

I'm still using 2.0.8
No plans to upgrade.

[LiNhi]

I'm still using 2.0.8
No plans to upgrade.

Same here. I created an account here just to tell the devs that their strive for design purity totally ruined my VLC experience.

Go figure.

[Rémi Denis-Courmont]

4) Forced downmixing for poorly mixed audio tracks.
This is a corner case.

...I have to disagree, this is NOT a "corner case", this is a common case...

Forced downmixing makes sense only if your hardware is broken (e.g. one channel is not working) and/our your operating system audio configuration does not match the hardware. In comparison with the normal use case of selecting the actual output device, forcing dowmixing is a corner case.

Now you are arguing that the problem is with broken videos:

LOTS of YouTube videos are messed up, with either ALL of the Audio on the Left or Right channel

You can already force left or right channels with the existing Stereo Mode menu (like previously Audio Channels). In fact, you could not do that with the option of forced downmixing: that would mix left and right channels together as one center channel.

As a side note, I have never had that problem with YouTube video. Also please note that VLC cannot work around all possible bugs in broken media files.

Anyway - in this thread and the other related most people seemed to complain about the (alleged lack of) option to switch between surround and stereo rather than from stereo to mono. I still fail to see an explanation as to how that surround case would not be a corner case.

...those are all "permanent" solutions to a TEMPORARY problem!

Incorrect output channel configuration is not a temporary problem. The operating system is supposed to know the correct channel mapping for each audio output device.

My proposed fix: simply put a Mono option in the Stereo Mode menu

It is not that easy and someone already failed in attempting to implement that. But by all means, help yourself to it if you want that feature. I have no objections to adding a Mono choice to Stereo Mode or even to adding a Surround Mode menu - so long as it does not involve my own free time.

[Rémi Denis-Courmont]

Same here. I created an account here just to tell the devs that their strive for design purity totally ruined my VLC experience.

Go figure.

Obvious troll is obvious.

[LiNhi]

Same here. I created an account here just to tell the devs that their strive for design purity totally ruined my VLC experience.

Go figure.

Obvious troll is obvious.

Actually, I am not a troll. I am an 31 yo attorney-at-law who's been using VLC for years and just cares enough about it to give you some feedback. You don't like it? Fine, but please do refrain from insulting me in the future. Thank you.

[Rémi Denis-Courmont]

A troll is someone trolling and you were trolling.

[LiNhi]

A troll is someone trolling and you were trolling.

I gave you a negative feedback. Trolling is something entirely different. For one, I don't want to insult you or your work. I just want to express my concerns over the change that affected my user experience with VLC in a negative way. That's it.

[Rémi Denis-Courmont]

That was not negative feedback, that was insulting and wrong.