Grey italic subtitles with VLC 0.8.6-test1-20061029-0330

[ss147]

Hi,

I have a problem; perhaps someone can help? Some of my subtitles come out grey. Please look at the attached screenshots. It only seems to affect subtitles that are italicised, but not all the time (the first screenshot is OK but the second one is grey).

I ripped the movie to H264 using NeroRecode 7 (plus latest patches) and all the subtitles look fine when using Nero Showtime (the Nero player). I'm using VLC 0.8.6-test1-20061029-0330

Any ideas people?

Thanks.

[DJ]

Cry and you cry alone! I believe is the end of the quote.

What's the subtitle format?

VLC supports 9 or more so I guess there may be at least 8 ways to be wrong by guessing.

[ss147]

I'm not sure if this is the information you want but "Stream and Media Info" lists Stream 2 as :-
Codec: spu
Language: English
Type: Subtitle

The source was a DVD.

Cheers.

[DJ]

There are a few formats that VLC has no control over. VOBSub, Sub Station Alpha, DVB and DVDs. The only areas VLC does not provide support for these is Color and Embedded fonts.

[ss147]

I'm not sure what you mean. I guess that the DVD subtitle bmps were copied directly to the mp4 container, so VLC should be able to render them correctly since Nero Showtime does. There is nothing special about the subtitles in the original as far as I can see.

Thanks.

[DJ]

No! Showtime doesn't. Neither does any of the Nero utilities as this would be imposable for the MP4 specification. Nero is pushing the envelope here anyway because there were never allowances for subtitles or chapters in MP4. Now that GPAC is also supporting it, makes QuickTime the remaining major hold out.

There are only two types of subs allowed in the container as of the latest revision of GPAC. VOBSub and SRT. VOBSub is the new addition and may not work well with all players. Gabest's MPC will show the sub but it's Black and rather unreadable for example. MPlayer won't show VOBSub at all even though it supports it. But MPLayer has never supported chapters. VLC will show both formats but it doesn't show chapters yet (as of VLC 0.8.6 test 1). It can also be noted that all the players outside of Showtime are a bit stubborn to show the sub even though they recognize the sub. In other words you may need to turn it off and back on again to get it to work. This is of coarse assuming that the sub is actually supported in the MP4 container. Externally you can do most anything you want here and MP4 has good timing to support external subs.

[Slaash]

There are a few formats that VLC has no control over. VOBSub, Sub Station Alpha, DVB and DVDs. The only areas VLC does not provide support for these is Color and Embedded fonts.

Will you work on it or is it a "choice" for not supporting these ?

[DJ]

Work on it?? It is supported! VOBSub is a graphics based format and is shown on screen according to what is in the .idx file which is what was supposed to be used when it was muxed. I haven't been experiencing problems using MP4Box 0.4.3 (GPAC) and Gabest's VOBSubRip, it also works well as an external sub.

I don't think I indicated any formats VLC doesn't support. I only mentioned formats that can't be moved or the attributes changed.

[Slaash]

I was speaking of colors and embedded fonts in ASS (or SSA) subs.

[Teetrinker]

No! Showtime doesn't. Neither does any of the Nero utilities as this would be imposable for the MP4 specification.

There are many things defined and possible with MPEG 4. Maybe it is to much possible, but for this reason there are Profiles and Levels.
http://www.chiariglione.org/mpeg/standa ... mpeg-4.htm

Nero is pushing the envelope here anyway because there were never allowances for subtitles or chapters in MP4.

Chapters would have been possible via segmentDescriptor inside the (I)OD, no need for Nero to go its one way.

You can use MPEG4/3GP Timed Text for subs in MP4. There are other official ways too.

Now that GPAC is also supporting it, makes QuickTime the remaining major hold out.

MPEG4/3GP Timed Text suptitle are supported by Quick Time 7. Quick Time will display the subs only in files with the extension .3gp

You can find a sample file here: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=8P75FHSM

If you rename the file to .mp4 Quick Time 7 stops to display the subs .

[DJ]

What you are failing to see is that everyone is kinda going there own way at the moment. Plus the fact that most specifications are on going. Chapters and subs were not in the original specification for the MPEG 4 container and the changes on this one are relatively new. This is why all players are not supporting it yet and why some players are having problems. VLC is following GPAC and the system works. In the past Nero has also followed GPAC so I would expect in the next revision this will be corrected by Nero. Perhaps in the next revision of MP4Creator it too will begin to support Chapters and Subs which it doesn't do now.

While QT supposedly has the capability for subs it is different from anyone else and Apple Computer is infamous for breaking the rules. However there is discussion about adding QT support to VLC

When I spoke of Nero it was based on my last experience with the program which was Nero 7 version 2.2 I think. At any rate VOBSub was not supported at that time.

[Teetrinker]

What you are failing to see is that everyone is kinda going there own way at the moment.

I am aware of that. The truth is, if you are strictly about the currently available players, most of them are not MP4 Players. But this is an other story, and not of intrest for the normal user. But a developer should aware of this. Just my opinion.

Plus the fact that most specifications are on going.
Chapters and subs were not in the original specification for the MPEG 4 container and the changes on this one are relatively new.

It is true that most specifications are on going, but the segmentDescriptor is there from the beginning or at least for a long time. The Streaming text format (ISO/IEC 14496-17) is a little bit newer. The first post here in the forum is from the end of 2004 ( viewtopic.php?t=6014 ) if I am not wrong.

This is why all players are not supporting it yet and why some players are having problems. VLC is following GPAC and the system works.

VLC doesn't support Systems. It will probably never support MPEG 4 systems.

In the past Nero has also followed GPAC so I would expect in the next revision this will be corrected by Nero.

The most used way(at the moment) to use chapters in MP4 was introduced by Nero. Someone integrated support for it in GPAC. Internely Osmo4 maps this chapter information to segmentDescriptors in the IOD. I don't think that Nero will change this. There Player doesn't recognize any Sytems information, at least it ignore the scene dimensions set in the IOD, why should they look for the segmentDescriptor. But let see what the future will bring.

Perhaps in the next revision of MP4Creator it too will begin to support Chapters and Subs which it doesn't do now.

We will see, but the development of mpeg4ip had slowed down.

While QT supposedly has the capability for subs it is different from anyone else and Apple Computer is infamous for breaking the rules. However there is discussion about adding QT support to VLC

Apple is follow the the 3gp standard. Apple may do some things different and not perfect, but they do this according the rules defined in 14496-* or 3gp.

When I spoke of Nero it was based on my last experience with the program which was Nero 7 version 2.2 I think. At any rate VOBSub was not supported at that time.

However, I doesn't want to discuss at what time Nero start to support VOBSub. But it was Nero who introduced VOBSub in MP4 files.

VLC is a nice Player and can do many things, but it is impossible to support every thing.

Regards
Richard

[DJ]

Ya, know, I don't really care who was 1st, 3rd or 10th to support VobSub in a MP4 container. The fact of the mater is, until someone starts to follow a standard there will be little hope of players supporting it anytime soon. Personally I believe VLC has taken a step in the right direction in supporting GPAC. And I will, for the record say again: "The system works!" When others begin to follow a standard I'm sure it will also work.