converting/transcoding for iPod not really ok

[mpeg-lover]

Hi Folks!

I'm trying to convert some movie DVD titles to iPod. Meanwhile I've first usable results but a second transcode step is alredy necessary.

VLC 0.8.6i / MP4V / AAC (2-ch downmix):
C:\Programme\VideoLAN\VLC\vlc.exe "dvd://D:\@1" :audio-language=de
:sout=#transcode{vcodec=mp4v,vb=700,width=320,height=240,acodec=mp4a,ab=128,channels=2}
:duplicate{dst=std{access=file,mux=mp4,dst="C:\Titanic-086i-MP4V-AAC-320x240.mp4"}}

VLC 0.8.6i / H.264 / AAC (2-ch downmix):
C:\Programme\VideoLAN\VLC\vlc.exe "dvd://D:\@1" :audio-language=de
:sout=#transcode{vcodec=h264,vb=700,width=320,height=240,acodec=mp4a,ab=128,channels=2}
:duplicate{dst=std{access=file,mux=mp4,dst="C:\Titanic-086i-H264-AAC-320x240.mp4"}}


Both are copyable to iTunes 8 Library and playable with iTunes/QuickTime.

The first one (MP4V, AAC) is even synchronizable to iPod - but not playable on it.

Both are synchronizable and playable if I convert them to iPod/iPhone via iTunes (a second transcoding step after transcoded via VLC).


Differencies I can see with a MP4V file: (tests with 640 x 480, but at 320 x 240 it's the same)

after VLC transcoding:

QuickTime Inspector (Ctrl-I):
format: AAC, Stereo (L R), 48.000 kHz
AAC, Stereo (L R), 48.000 kHz <- strange: a second one!
MPEG-4 Video, 640 x 480, 16,7 Mill.
fps: 24,98
rate: 1.30 MBit/s

iTunes Information (Ctrl-I):
no separate audio rate is shown
rate (summary): 1295 kBit/s

after additional iTunes transcoding:

QuickTime Inspector (Ctrl-I):
format: AAC, Stereo (L R), 44.100 kHz
H.264, 640 x 480, 16,7 Mill.
fps: 24,98
rate: 1.61 MBit/s

iTunes Information (Ctrl-I):
rate: 124 kBit/s
rate (summary): 1610 kBit/s


Differencies I can see with a H.264 file: (tests with 640 x 480, but at 320 x 240 it's the same)

after VLC transcoding:

QuickTime Inspector (Ctrl-I):
format: AAC, Stereo (L R), 48.000 kHz
AAC, Stereo (L R), 48.000 kHz <- strange: a second one!
H.264, 640 x 480, 16,7 Mill.
fps: 25,00
rate: 1.27 MBit/s

iTunes Information (Ctrl-I):
no separate audio rate is shown
rate (summary): 1272 kBit/s

after additional iTunes transcoding:

QuickTime Inspector (Ctrl-I):
format: AAC, Stereo (L R), 44.100 kHz
H.264, 640 x 480, 16,7 Mill.
fps: 25,00
rate: 1.61 MBit/s

iTunes Information (Ctrl-I):
rate: 110 kBit/s
rate (summary): 1613 kBit/s


Finally the questions:

- I suppose iPod should be able to play MP4V-Video (see tech specs below), especially if it's syncable to iPod already.
- The second audio stream in the only VLC transcoded file is strange. How can I avoid it?
- What I have to setup in VLC to transcode an immediately iPod syncable file?

Any ideas?


Thanks,
Harald


Tech specs iPod touch 2G from Apple:

Video:
- MPEG-4 video, up to 2.5 Mbps, 640 by 480 pixels, 30 frames per second, Simple Profile with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps, 48kHz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats
- H.264 video, up to 1.5 Mbps, 640 by 480 pixels, 30 frames per second, Low-Complexity version of the H.264 Baseline Profile with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps, 48kHz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats
- H.264 video, up to 2.5 Mbps, 640 by 480 pixels, 30 frames per second, Baseline Profile up to Level 3.0 with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps, 48kHz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats

[mpeg-lover]

If I'm transcoding with dvdsimple:// instead of dvd:// there is only one audio entry in QuickTime Inspector like expected / like wanted, but this VLC transcoded file have to be transcoded additionally by iTunes, too:

VLC 0.8.6i:
C:\Programme\VideoLAN\VLC\vlc.exe "dvdsimple://D:\@1" :audio-track=2
:sout=#transcode{vcodec=h264,vb=1200,width=640,height=480,acodec=mp4a,ab=128,samplerate=44100,channels=2}
:duplicate{dst=std{access=file,mux=mp4,dst="C:\Titanic-H264-AAC-2ch-128-44100-640x480-dvdsimp.mp4"}}


QuickTime Inspector (Ctrl-I):
format: AAC, Stereo (L R), 44.100 kHz
H.264 Video, 640 x 480, 16,7 Mill.
fps: 25,00
rate: 1.25 MBit/s

iTunes Information (Ctrl-I):
rate: 128 kBit/s
rate (summary): 1246 kBit/s

VLC information (Ctrl-J):
no differencies between VLC transcoded and iTunes additionally transcoded file


What the hell is the difference between VLC transcoded H.264/AAC and iTunes additionally transcoded H.264/AAC!?
Perhaps something with muxing? - No: QT7 Inspector would be shown "muxed"...


Harald

[VLC_help]

Use tool called Mediainfo to identify file differences, it gives more info. At least VLC 1.0.0 can create iPod compatible files.

[mpeg-lover]

Hi VLC_help!

Use tool called Mediainfo to identify file differences, it gives more info. At least VLC 1.0.0 can create iPod compatible files.

Thank you for this hint.


VLC 0.8.6i (because you'd written 0.9.x-H.264-encoding is broken at all):

Because of some differencies I'd changed my command to venc=x264{nocabac,level=30} instead of vcodec=h264.
(Profile Baseline@L3.0 [discovered within an other iTunes transcoded file] instead of VLC default Main@L5.1, but I don't know anything about profiles etc. The next iTunes transcoded file is Baseline@L1.3, now.)

Code: Select all

vlc.exe "dvdsimple://D:\@1" :audio-track=1 :sout=#transcode{venc=x264{nocabac,level=30},vb=700,width=320,height=240,acodec=mp4a,ab=110,samplerate=44100,channels=2} :duplicate{dst=std{access=file,mux=mp4,dst="C:\TESTDVD-H264-700-AAC-2ch-110-44100-320x240-dvdsimp.mp4"}}

There are some minor differencies - don't know what could be important for iPod (tried to mark the important ones bold):

MediaInfo
=========

VLC 0.8.6i transcoded file

Code: Select all

General Complete name : TESTDVD-H264-700-AAC-2ch-110-44100-320x240-dvdsimp.mp4 Format : MPEG-4 [b]Format profile[/b] : [b]Base Media[/b] Codec ID : [b]isom[/b] File size : 17.5 MiB Duration : 3mn 9s Overall bit rate : 777 Kbps Encoded date : UTC 2008-12-21 18:14:43 Tagged date : UTC 2008-12-21 18:14:43 Writing application : vlc 0.8.6h stream output Comment : QuickTime 6.0 or greater Video Format : AVC Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec Format profile : [b]Baseline@L3.0[/b] Format settings, CABAC : No Format settings, ReFrames : [b]1 frame[/b] Muxing mode : [b]Container profile=Unknown@3.0[/b] Codec ID : avc1 Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding Duration : 3mn 9s Bit rate mode : Variable Bit rate : 661 Kbps Nominal bit rate : 700 Kbps Width : 320 pixels Height : 240 pixels Display aspect ratio : 4/3 Frame rate mode : Variable Frame rate : 25.000 fps Minimum frame rate : 24.415 fps Maximum frame rate : 25.025 fps Resolution : 24 bits Colorimetry : 4:2:0 Scan type : Progressive Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.344 Stream size : 14.9 MiB (85%) Writing library : x264 core 54 svn-601M Encoding settings : cabac=0 / ref=1 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x1:0x11 / me=hex / subme=5 / brdo=0 / mixed_ref=0 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=0 / 8x8dct=0 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / chroma_qp_offset=0 / slices=1 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / mbaff=0 / bframes=0 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=25 / scenecut=40 / rc=cbr / bitrate=700 / ratetol=1.0 / rceq='blurCplx^(1-qComp)' / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=10 / qpmax=51 / qpstep=4 / vbv_maxrate=700 / vbv_bufsize=1400 / ip_ratio=1.40 Encoded date : UTC 2008-12-21 18:14:43 Tagged date : UTC 2008-12-21 18:14:43 Audio Format : AAC Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec Format version : Version 4 Format profile : LC Format settings, SBR : No Codec ID : 40 Duration : 3mn 9s Bit rate mode : Variable Bit rate : 110 Kbps Maximum bit rate : 196 Kbps Channel(s) : 2 channels Channel positions : L R Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz Resolution : 16 bits Stream size : 2.48 MiB (14%) Language : [b]German[/b] Encoded date : UTC 2008-12-21 18:14:43 Tagged date : UTC 2008-12-21 18:14:43

VLC 0.8.6i and iTunes 8 transcoded file

Code: Select all

General Complete name : TESTDVD-H264-700-AAC-2ch-110-44100-320x240-dvdsimp-iTunes.m4v Format : MPEG-4 Codec ID : [b]M4V[/b] File size : 17.8 MiB Duration : 3mn 9s Overall bit rate : 787 Kbps [b]Movie name[/b] : TESTDVD-H264-700-AAC-2ch-110-44100-320x240-dvdsimp Encoded date : UTC 2008-12-21 19:07:08 Tagged date : UTC 2008-12-21 20:09:04 Video Format : AVC Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec Format profile : [b]Baseline@L1.3[/b] Format settings, CABAC : No Format settings, ReFrames : [b]2 frames[/b] Codec ID : avc1 Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding Duration : 3mn 9s Bit rate mode : Variable Bit rate : 682 Kbps Width : 320 pixels Height : 240 pixels Display aspect ratio : 4/3 Frame rate mode : Variable Frame rate : 25.000 fps Minimum frame rate : 24.417 fps Maximum frame rate : 25.028 fps Resolution : 24 bits Colorimetry : 4:2:0 Scan type : Progressive Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.355 Stream size : 15.4 MiB (87%) Title : Apple Video Mediensteuerung [b]Language[/b] : [b]English[/b] Encoded date : UTC 2008-12-21 19:03:08 Tagged date : UTC 2008-12-21 19:07:17 Audio Format : AAC Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec Format version : Version 4 Format profile : LC Format settings, SBR : No Codec ID : 40 Duration : 3mn 9s Bit rate mode : Constant Bit rate : 101 Kbps Nominal bit rate : 128 Kbps Channel(s) : 2 channels Channel positions : L R Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz Resolution : 16 bits Stream size : 2.28 MiB (13%) Title : Apple Ton Mediensteuerung Language : [b]English[/b] Encoded date : UTC 2008-12-21 19:03:08 Tagged date : UTC 2008-12-21 20:09:04

Any ideas?

(I don't want to play with 1.0.0 because I'm to busy to discover a new bunch of bugs and look for work-arounds, now. )


Harald

[mpeg-lover]

No success with transcoding für iPod (touch) with VLC 0.8.6i!

(Unfortunately H.264 is broken in 0.9.8a, like VLC_help mentioned - so I've to choose 0.8.6i.)

Can anyone tell me working x264 options for creating iPod videos (from DVDs)?

By the way: is ffmpeg H.264 encoding not implemeted in 0.8.x? (Someone had written about "vcodec=h264,venc=ffmpeg{...}" - at my PC only "venc=x264{...}" creates video output.)


My last tested / non working command line command (no audio to avoid audio problems):
vlc.exe "dvdsimple://D:\@1" :audio-track=1 :sout=#transcode{vcodec=h264,venc=x264{keyint=250,min-keyint=25,bframes=0,nob-adapt,b-bias=0,nobpyramid,nocabac,ref=1,nonf,deblock=4:2:0,level=30,
nointerlaced,crf=0,qpmin=22,qpmax=51,qpstep=4,ratetol=100.0,ipratio=1.40,pbratio=1.30,qcomp=1.60,partitions=slow,
direct=none,noweightb,me=umh,merange=16,subme=1,mixed-refs,mixed-ref=1,no8x8dct,trellis=0,nofast-pskip,nodct-decimate,nr=0,nopsnr,nossim},
vb=1200,fps=15.0,width=640,height=480,deinterlace}
:duplicate{dst=std{access=file,mux=mp4,dst="C:\ipodtest.m4v"}}

I suppose it's Baseline Level 3.0 and Apple iPod touch compatible: no CABAC, no B-frames, progressive, rate 1200, ...

Apple, iPod touch 2G: "H.264 video, up to 2.5 Mbps, 640 by 480 pixels, 30 frames per second, Baseline Profile up to Level 3.0 with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps, 48kHz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats"

Doom9, sticky "MPEG-4 AVC/H.264 Information": "- Baseline Profile offers I/P-Frames, supports progressive and CAVLC only"

It creates this one (MediaInfo):

Code: Select all

General Complete name : C:\ipodtest.m4v Format : MPEG-4 Format profile : Base Media Codec ID : isom File size : 1.36 MiB Duration : 20s 599ms Overall bit rate : 553 Kbps Encoded date : UTC 2008-12-23 18:56:41 Tagged date : UTC 2008-12-23 18:56:41 Writing application : vlc 0.8.6h stream output Video Format : AVC Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec Format profile : Baseline@L3.0 Format settings, CABAC : No Format settings, ReFrames : 1 frame Muxing mode : Container profile=Unknown@3.0 Codec ID : avc1 Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding Duration : 20s 599ms Bit rate mode : Variable Bit rate : 552 Kbps Nominal bit rate : 1 200 Kbps Width : 640 pixels Height : 480 pixels Display aspect ratio : 4/3 Frame rate mode : Variable Frame rate : 15.001 fps Minimum frame rate : 14.721 fps Maximum frame rate : 15.167 fps Original frame rate : 15.000 fps Resolution : 24 bits Colorimetry : 4:2:0 Scan type : Progressive Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.120 Stream size : 1.36 MiB (100%) Writing library : x264 core 54 svn-601M Encoding settings : cabac=0 / ref=1 / deblock=1:4:2 / analyse=0x1:0x111 / me=umh / subme=1 / brdo=0 / mixed_ref=0 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=0 / 8x8dct=0 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / chroma_qp_offset=0 / slices=1 / nr=0 / decimate=0 / mbaff=0 / bframes=0 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=25 / scenecut=40 / rc=cbr / bitrate=1200 / ratetol=100.0 / rceq='blurCplx^(1-qComp)' / qcomp=1.60 / qpmin=22 / qpmax=51 / qpstep=4 / vbv_maxrate=1200 / vbv_bufsize=2400 / ip_ratio=1.40 Encoded date : UTC 2008-12-23 18:56:41 Tagged date : UTC 2008-12-23 18:56:41

Harald

[VLC_help]

I only used mpeg-4 video for iPod encoding. In small screen quality differences don't show up anyhow and encoding is much faster. And iPod touch has better video support than regular iPods. And I am not sure if x264 version you use, can produce iPod compatible video. But if you wanna try, then test Baseline@L1.3, not 3.0

http://forum.doom9.org/archive/index.php/t-108312.html should give all working options

[mpeg-lover]

Hi VLC_help!

I only used mpeg-4 video for iPod encoding. In small screen quality differences don't show up anyhow and encoding is much faster.

Maybe one way to crate iPod videos... My VLC mp4v examples were even synchronisable via iTunes to iPod touch without further iTunes transcoding. But the iPod didn't play them. Perhaps a painful Apple restricton like with H.264 videos, too (see below).

Because of this unability I'd addressed my investigation to H.264 for the present.

By the way: nobody chases me, and transcoding is done by my PC (and electrical energy), so I've no reason to be fast.
The difference between 2 hour transcoding and 1 hour transcoding should be relevant for commercial production only, I think.
And I'm loving my content (I don't transcode crap), so it's possible to invest some amount of CPU time.

And iPod touch has better video support than regular iPods. And I am not sure if x264 version you use, can produce iPod compatible video. But if you wanna Try, then test Baseline@L1.3, not 3.0

Thank you for this ideas.

By the way I'd collect several infos, already:
Level 1.3 is for a maximum of (about, see specs) 320x240 and 768 kbit/s.
Level 3.0 allows (about, see specs) 640x480 and rates up to 1,5 or 2,5 Mbit/s.

So level 3.0 should be appropriate for at least iPod touch 2nd Gen. and iPod nano 4th Gen. (excluding bogus implementations of encoding software).

http://forum.doom9.org/archive/index.php/t-108312.html should give all working options

This post was my first main source for x264 options, already... (nevertheless: thanks!)

Meanwhile I'm closer to the true problem, I think:
F***ing Apple (sorry, I'm really angry of wasting hours and days) seems to had included some extra tags to prevent playing H.264 content from other encoders than QT Pro, and iTunes (and perhaps their commercial content mass encoders). Thank you, Apple! Thank you, Steve! (My money isn't enough - you want more and more...) Named "iPod atom" or "UUID atom": "UUID atom must exist containing the following hex data: 6B 68 40 F2 5F 24 4F C5 BA 39 A5 1B CF 03 23 F3"

I'm not ready to test this. I suppose VLC 0.8.6i libx264 isn't able to insert such tags?

Unfortunately MediaInfo 0.7.8 didn't report such tags.


Harald

[VLC_help]

ATOMs are MP4 container related stuff. Not video codec. So with 0.8.6 the MP4 muxer might not produce files which are 100% iPod compatible.

[mpeg-lover]

Hi VLC_help!

ATOMs are MP4 container related stuff. Not video codec.

Thanks for this info. Meanwhile I'd discovered this fact at other sources, too.

So with 0.8.6 the MP4 muxer might not produce files which are 100% iPod compatible.

But the 0.9.8a might do this? (Unfortunately no H.264.)

I'm not able to deal with atoms virtously, but I'd made an attempt with NicMP4Box (an iPod UUID/atom adding patched MP4Box: NicMP4Box.exe -add NotWorking.M4V Working.M4V ). This didn't had any success.

Of course I'm not expecting atom manipulating options with VLCs mp4 muxer!?

Perhaps the atom is changed by Apple with new iPod touch 2G firmware (2.2) (I suppose). Or further problems with the detailed x264 transcoding options (less likely). I don't know...


Harald

[mpeg-lover]

After all I get a mp4v and mp4a DVD rip/transcode with VLC 0.8.6i/dvdsimple working on an iPod touch 2G (FW 2.2), even in 640x480!

This are my working commandline commands:

VLC 0.8.6i:
(Third audio track "2" is 2-ch German; even with downmixing of 5.1-ch track "1" it's running [opposite to 0.9.x, which crashes with downmixing])

vlc.exe "dvdsimple://D:\@1" :audio-track=2
:sout=#transcode{vcodec=mp4v,vb=640,width=320,height=240,acodec=mp4a,ab=128,samplerate=44100,channels=2}
:duplicate{dst=std{access=file,mux=mp4,dst="C:\Titanic-086i-MP4V-320x240-AAC.mp4"}}

vlc.exe "dvdsimple://D:\@1" :audio-track=2
:sout=#transcode{vcodec=mp4v,vb=1300,width=640,height=480,acodec=mp4a,ab=128,samplerate=44100,channels=2}
:duplicate{dst=std{access=file,mux=mp4,dst="C:\Titanic-086i-MP4V-640x480-AAC.mp4"}}

vlc.exe "dvdsimple://D:\@1" :audio-track=1
:sout=#transcode{vcodec=mp4v,vb=1300,width=640,height=480,acodec=mp4a,ab=128,samplerate=44100,channels=2}
:duplicate{dst=std{access=file,mux=mp4,dst="C:\Titanic-086i-MP4V-640x480-AAC.mp4"}}


So I'm looking forward to version 1.0.0, which should have correct this:
- (0.9.x) repaired mp4a (no stuttering audio in QT, and also playability on iPod)
- (0.9.8a) repaired dvdsimple:// ((0.9.x) and ":audio-track=X" shouldn't popup an error message with GUI at convert [not play])
- (0.9.x) working ":audio-track=X" with dvd:// (so if choosed ":audio-language=YY" there aren't more than one audio track [e.g. 5.1-ch and 2-ch] included)
- (0.9.x) repaired downmixing (5.1-ch to 2-ch)
- (0.9.x) running H264
- (0.x.x) perhaps iPod atoms with MP4 muxing of H.264 videos (don't know if necessay now - should be an aleged iPod Classic 5.5 issue with high def [larger than 320x240]) <- edit: iPod atoms seems to be outdated (see posts below)
-- if this atoms aren't solutions: other techniques to get H.264 videos syncable and playable on iPods
(A big bunch of wishes - but all of this functions but the last are really essential ones, I think!)


Harald

[mpeg-lover]

Hey Guys!

Preventing of syncing H.264 videos to iPod via special atoms seems to be an Apple nuisance in era of iPod 5.5G and some kind of iTunes 7. So patronizing ended in about the middle of 2007 or late 2006.

Already with newer versions of iTunes 7 this restriction was removed, users said. (But perhaps re-introduced now with at least iTunes 8.0.2.20 and iPod touch 2G 2.2!?)

I'm still not able to transcode movies in H.264 which are syncable to iPod by iTunes. (By the way: iTunes knows one error message at all. Like "This video isn't transferred to iPod because iPod isn't able to playback it!" [free translation of German message].)

I've done all necessary/important settings, I suppose
-VLC 0.8.6i, x264 (because of newer 0.9.x versions crashes with H.264)
-nocabac
-nobframes
-level=30
-ref=1 (up to 5 or 6 should be possible with newer iPods)
-partitions=none (and additionally tested slow, fast, all)
-maximum rate: vb=1300
-width=640, height=320
-deblock=0:0

Is anybody out there which could create a running H.264 video with this collection of products and versions?


Harald

[Jean-Baptiste Kempf]

Please fill a bug on each issue.

[mpeg-lover]

Hi j-b!

Please fill a bug on each issue.

OMG! After days of investigation and bug searching my mental energy (for VLC and x264) is down...

Can you tell me shortly how to find/operate bug tracking system and how to search for already entered bugs?
(You'll recognize: I'm barely able to invest hours of learning about VideoLANs bug tracking system.)


Harald

[Jean-Baptiste Kempf]

trac.videolan.org/vlc

Create a new login, tell me the name of it so I can validate it and click on new bug.

[mpeg-lover]

trac.videolan.org/vlc

Create a new login, tell me the name of it so I can validate it and click on new bug.

Thanks! (Meanwhile I'd found/read bug tracking pages.)

I'd registered at Trac, now. Same user name: mpeg-lover.

OMG, what an exertion for all this bugs and versions...
Meanwhile I've tested some of them with nightly build 1.0.0 (of 2008-12-25) - this additional expenditure is necessary for bug reporting also, too.

(-> Neither dvd:// nor dvdsimple:// is possible with this build [with GUI].
With H.264 VLC still crashes.
VOBs on HDD from a DVD rip are playable, at converting [mp4v,mp4a] VLC crashes.
No useful tests are possible - essential functions aren't working. )


Harald

[Jean-Baptiste Kempf]

You are registered.

1.0 is unstable, of course

[mpeg-lover]

Hi Jean-Baptiste!

1.0 is unstable, of course

You are a funny guy!! You are joking!

Of course! (But I've to check current nightlies before posting bugs, haven't I?)

Additionally I'm joking, too: 0.9.x is unstable, too!


Cheers (thanks for registering),
mpeg-lover

[mpeg-lover]

iTunes syncing prevention of transcoded H.264 files seems to be a muxing issue with VLC (0.8.6i)!
With MP4Box I'm more successful! (But I want to do the whole job in VLC, of course.)

See this:
link to Doom9 thread

(And the next step is to find properly working H.264 options, I suppose.)


mpeg-lover