Any way to improve VobSub subtitles rendering quality/size?

[har-vas]

Hello all. I am using VLC for many years and I consider it as an excellent media player, but I think that it has a disadvantage: Subtitles support. Now I will focus on VobSub subtitles (more precisely idx/sub inside matroska). The default quality of the display is not good and the letters are not clear and/or too small (I know that this has to do also with the subtitles themselves, I am just asking for ways to improve in any case). What I am searching for is a better rendering method, like ffdshow has, and the ability to magnify/increase their size (like again ffdshow has). I am not going to ask for the very useful option of changing the subtitles vertical position...

So, is there any way to increase the size of idx/sub subtitles and improve the display quality? I searched in the settings, but I didn't find any relevant option for idx/sub subtitles, only for text-based. Thanks!

PS: Here are two screenshots taken from VLC. In those cases I would like to increase the size/magnify and lower the position of the subtitles. Is that possible?


I would like to repeat it: If VLC could have the subtitles abilities of ffdhow (vertical position, size, rendering quality) it would be really GREAT!

[Jean-Baptiste Kempf]

ok. VLC will not use some Dshow specific things for every platforms.

But yes, your subtitle support is still a bit poor, but it is improving. Our freetype renderer is getting better.

About the vertical position, it is a bit tricky because of the actual Vout structure, but any patches are welcome.

[har-vas]

Sorry, but I didn't understand much of your answer.

ok. VLC will not use some Dshow specific things for every platforms.

What do you mean by that? Do you mean that the magnification of the subtitles (and other ffdshow's abilities) are feasible only under Windows? So VLC will not use them because has the policy not to implement features which cannot be implemented in every platform?

But yes, your subtitle support is still a bit poor, but it is improving. Our freetype renderer is getting better.

I thought that the freetype renderer has to do only with text-based subtitles. I tried it and I saw no improvement in my case. Is there any way to improve the vobsub subtitles now?

About the vertical position, it is a bit tricky because of the actual Vout structure, but any patches are welcome.

Do you mean patches from me? Sorry, I am not a developer. I just want to suggest useful feautures and improvements, as an advanced user. I hope that these suggestions are welcome.
In first place, I think that VLC should provide the ability to lower the subs, inside the video frame (do you mean that this is the tricky?). In the future, I hope to make it possible to display them under the movie.

PS: I think that VLC should give an option to automatically enable the subtitles, giving also a language priority (in the case of two embedded streams). It is a bit annoying for me to have to enable every time the greek subtitles, because the default setting is "Disable".

[DJ]

1 - 3 Yes!

VOBSub is Graphics based and the Info... is in the .idx file. When the video is resized (often without the aspect ratio being quite correct) the sub will change in appearance. There is NO compensating for this in VLC as it is a encoding problem.

New items:

1. VOBSub is a graphics based sub. You can't put subs where there is no Video, this unlikely to happen in VLC.

2. Automatically enabling subs was greatly improved in 0.8.6b which is current. Your preference for language can be set in Preferences. But the automatic selection according to the default setting is dependent on the person doing the encoding and is set in the muxer. Many people don't set a default. VLC allows you to make this change based on your preference for any sub that has multiple languages.

Improvements to sub handling are on going and will continue to improve in 0.9.0

[har-vas]

Hello again. In general, it's hard for me to understand your answers... If I understood correctly, you are telling me that the magnification of the subtitles (and other ffdshow's abilities) are feasible only under Windows, that's why VLC will not support them, correct? That's too bad.

VOBSub is Graphics based and the Info... is in the .idx file.

So where is the problem? Is it impossible for VLC to have direct access to the idx and dynamically change the subtitles's properties during playback? I can't have access to the idx file, hence change the size etc, since the subtitles are embedded in matroska. The only way is to extract the stream with MKVextractGUI before watching a movie, which is very uncomfortable.

When the video is resized (often without the aspect ratio being quite correct) the sub will change in appearance.

The only resizing I make is the switch to the fullscreen, which does keep the correct AR. I am not asking from VLC to keep the graphics-based subtitles in a correct appearance, in the case of a bad resizing.

VOBSub is a graphics based sub. You can't put subs where there is no Video, this unlikely to happen in VLC.

I know that, I have read many other similar discussions here. I didn't ask to put them where there is no video, I just said:

In first place, I think that VLC should provide the ability to lower the subs, inside the video frame

Automatically enabling subs was greatly improved in 0.8.6b which is current.

I use a developer version 0.9 and I can't find a relative setting. Could you please help me? I just want to report that in the case of external subtitles, they are already automatically enabled. This discussion has to do with the case of embedded subtitles, which are disabled by default.

Your preference for language can be set in Preferences.

Where? I can't find any option (advanced mode).

But the automatic selection according to the default setting is dependent on the person doing the encoding and is set in the muxer. Many people don't set a default.

In my case, we talk about matroska files (muxed with mmg), where every stream is set as default (if it's the only one in its category of course). In the case of two subtitle streams, I have enabled as default one of them. So I suppose that I have done what I should.

Improvements to sub handling are on going and will continue to improve in 0.9.0

OK, we will wait. I really believe that VLC can do much more in that field.

I thought that the freetype renderer has to do only with text-based subtitles. I tried it and I saw no improvement in my case.

Could you please answer to that? What is this freetype renderer and when it can help? I think that the documentation of VLC is only descriptive, not explanatory.

[Jean-Baptiste Kempf]

Well, yes, subtitles can be improved in VLC. We are working on it (especially html, A.S.S/S.S.A/AS5 and position)

However, there are new ways of improving those subtitles but we haven't done yet, because there are so many systems of subtitles and we are so few of us.

One of the main problem is resolution size/actual size of subtitles rendering... But that needs time and people wanting to do it.
Patches are welcome.

[keesvd]

I too think VLC is fantastic software, but I too think the subtitles support is the weakest link at the moment.

Being an end-user, I would like a menu-item where i can change at least the size of the subtitles. (optional one could think about color, font and positioning), but the size is the most important.

For a lot of users (hearing impaired and non native speakers) subtitles are essential, without them (or without them being large enough) a particular movie may be worthless.

I am not a software developer, so excuse me if i am making stupid suggestions, but to me it seems that if you guys can present me with complex material such as video and audio, what could be the problem to take control over simple text?

Again, i do not understand the possible complications, but can't you just take the timestamps and the text from the subtitle file and control the (relative) size and positioning in VLC? Size could be absolute and/or relative (--/++ font size), and maybe provide some alternative fonts?

Again, because of the importance of subtitles, i would like to suggest to provide end-users with a couple of menu items (rather than some preference settings).

Positioning also relative (higher, lower, to the right, to the left).

Thank you again for your software!

[dionoea]

Subtitles in VLC (and all the other overlay features) are currently rendered directly on the decoded video frame at it's original resolution. Video outputs are then responsible for scaling (in most cases). To get subtitles at display resolution you'd need to render directly on screen. This has been on our TODO list for quite some time but noone has had the courrage to implement it yet.

[keesvd]

Antoine, thank you for you answer. I think you guys should continue to keep develloping those usability related features.
Personally I think VLC is better than all other players for 2 reasons: 1) it will play almost anything, and 2) the easy-to-use elaborate menu's. I understand the first reason is a enormous challenge, but please keep working on that second reason as well! With that you are helping a lot of not so very tehnical users like me and needless to say, with the best subtitle handling, you will win a huge marketshare.

[defaulk]

Is there a bug report related to this? I would very much like one. It would help me to keep track of when it gets resolved.

Specifically, I would like to have a bug that addresses subtitles looking squished due to rescaling when the encoded video is anamorphic.