Old skin (classic 0.8.*) on new version (0.9.2)

[Jean-Baptiste Kempf]

hmm...was looking at the player at a lan this weekend and noticed something that put me off a lil too

when a vid is playing, I liked the old setup where the play controls are at the top of the video while the search bare moved along the bottom
and the status bar at the bottom also seems to be reversed order (small thing though)

This will be possible in 1.0

[snake eyes]

cool
sounds good

[maps]

I don't see the need for skins, but since that is the case I do think that the default should not have any design flaws. The layout being that it is a video player should be similar to hardware video players. If it's not skinned it should only have windows icons such as the volume icon.
-In the new version which I just installed, the 'stop' button is between the next & previous playlist buttons.
-Stop button should be next to the Play button.
-FF/RW buttons ARE ON OPPOSITE SIDES OF THE SCREEN. Can you imagine having a dvd player where the FF/RW buttons were on the opposite sides of the player?
-Having raised buttons & fuzzy icons makes the interface feel heavier. Same with the recessed status info at the bottom.
-Volume slider doesn't need to be tapered, it provides no information as to the proportionality of the DB level and is not balanced by the little speaker icon next to it.
-The Big Play Button creates a blank gray space between the other buttons and the position slider.
-The Position slider is not pointed anymore, leaving you to eyeball where the 'center' is. Doesn't feel as accurate.
-It should also be that the position slider is at the bottom of the screen, right above the status information. You don't have to look down past the buttons to see the 0:00:00/0:00:00 fields as you are adjusting the position.
-Buttons should be at the top under the menu bar. If you just opened a file or playlist and you do not have it set to play automatically, the buttons should be closer to the menu.

[Linas]

I agree on all complaints about the new look, especially that the old skin is simpler, clearer, lighter.

I guess that all usability experts will say that 0.8 version have better usability, less clutter.

Resume? I downgraded to 0.8 version just because interface. And I will stay here maybe forever... Except you bring back classic look.

PS. If you want to increase traffic to this forum, create even more cluttered interface - I come there just because I needed to check out how to have 0.8 look.

Thank you for creating so great player! VLC 0.8 - the best player ever created! Thanks!

[sonicspike41]

Thank you for creating so great player! VLC 0.8 - the best player ever created! Thanks!

I'm pretty sure this is exactly what he dislikes about the posts in this topic. It's more "it too ugly" than "the buttons should be positioned in x arrangement to better simulate a real DVD menu". It seems more like non-constructive criticism to me. Perhaps if you append a nice suggestion or two it might help them more than if you just say you reverted to the 0.8 version of VLC.

[Linas]

But the old buttons had all the best things: clarity, light view, no clutter, intuitiveness. If someone want VLC look like iTunes or Windows Player or whatever, so for those purposes are skins. Basic, default installation should be as simple as possible, users love VLC not because it looks trendy, but because it looks light and simple.

VLC stands for minimalistic look and it is a great difference from other players. Why play with success?

Constructive suggestions? Just one - you can change buttons, but please do not add clutter to view - shades, bolds, other "decorations". Does it sounds non-constructive?

[sonicspike41]

No, that's a lot more clear and precise I suppose. I believe j-b said somewhere in this thread that the new look was implemented not only because of the change from wxWidgets, but also because it was requested.

[Jean-Baptiste Kempf]

No, that's a lot more clear and precise I suppose. I believe j-b said somewhere in this thread that the new look was implemented not only because of the change from wxWidgets, but also because it was requested.

Thank you!

People just have to understand that THEIR usage of VLC is NOT everyone's usage.

Anyway, this topic is stupid, boring AND irrelevant, since I have said 10x times that you will be able to get the same layout for buttons in 1.0...
In fact, any layout you want.

[robwgibbons]

I also just registered to post my thoughts on the new interface. I am a big fan of VLC, and I've personally converted all of my friends to VLC. I was once a WinAmp user, because of its simple, elegant interface, and breadth of input formats. Then I heard about VLC, and was immediately sold. The sheer number of formats VLC supports is enough to impress anyone. The interface initially seemed basic to me, but I very quickly came to appreciate its simplicity.

The new interface, I am very sad to say, takes away from the experience of using VLC player. In my eyes, VLC player has always been the no-bullshit, let's-get-this-sh*t-done, back-to-basics media player. The new interface does not illustrate this philosophy. I am a website designer, and I study interface design. Honestly, the new VLC looks like a toy. It is simply clutter to my eyes. I can understand the rearrangement of the menu. This is an actual change of workflow design that someone invested some obvious thought into. I appreciate that, and thus it is not an issue. But the new buttons and volume slider BROKE MY HEART. I am about as die-hard a fan as you can get, and let me tell you, it was not a welcome change to see my beloved media player change its face.

It's like seeing your girlfriend of four years suddenly change her makeup and start acting differently. You know immediately she's found someone else.

So while I applaud the efforts of the developers, and I will continue to use VLC (using the native volume-slider option,) I have to say that the new interface falls short of intuition. The play button does not necessarily need to be larger than the rest. It is a largely subjective observation to say that the play button is any more important than the stop or navigation buttons. As for the volume slider: diagonal lines (i.e. triangles) immediately stand out to the eye, and not in a pleasant way. Not to mention the fact that stylistically, rainbows are not a good choice in any design. It simply distracts the user from the media. Which is exactly what the old interface was all about - the media. The simple, flat, clean interface left nothing to distract the user from the media.

I realize the topic is exhausted, but after upgrading, I wouldn't have been able to sleep tonight unless I added my voice to the feedback. Great work, guys. Best regards, Rob.

[Jean-Baptiste Kempf]

Well, summarize of a long post:

* You don't like the play button because it is too big.
* You don't like the volume slider in rainbow colours.

You will be able to change that in 1.0.

[sonicspike41]

You should create a bot that auto-replies to anything over a paragraph with a similar message.

Summary of a long post:

"I don't like the new "theme" or one of the other changes."

You will be able to change fix that in 1.0.

Not quite as dramatic without strikethrough, but you get the idea.

[hoak]

While I love the improvements, new featurse, and just the fact that VLC Media Player is so well supported; I too miss the lean & clean old 0.8.* 'Martlet' interface -- and hope someone (won't be me as I'm not an Artist) will cook up a button set and layout that's similar to the what was on 0.8.*...

=O)

[Mr. G]

Really, this new interface is really, really bad. I can't use VLC with this interface, I have to switch back the old one until the old one is back in the new version. It is too big and clumsy for me. And above all, when you switch to full screen, the play menu works like MWP, I hate that. But maybe I have the possibility to correct that problem?

[Lightice]

I too find the changes done to the new interface needlessly cluttered, and unhelpful. When I've spent years using interface at the top of the screen, switching to the bottom for no reason feels jarring, to say the least. Furthermore, none of the changes feels helpful or useful - the only one that comes close is the pop-up interface in the full screen mode, and that would function far better at the upper left corner, for the aforementioned reasons.
I don't need fancier controls or styles - if I did, I would have used a skin. It's all just in the way, quite unnecessarily. The design philosophy of the VLC was never to try to compete with the fancy-smancy commercial products with their increasingly convoluted interfaces - it makes me sad to see this change.

I hope that the version 1.0 is indeed modifiable enough for me to enjoy all the programming improvements without putting unimportant clutter to my desktop. Until then, I remain with 8.6.

[Jean-Baptiste Kempf]

I too find the changes done to the new interface needlessly cluttered, and unhelpful. When I've spent years using interface at the top of the screen, switching to the bottom for no reason feels jarring, to say the least. Furthermore, none of the changes feels helpful or useful - the only one that comes close is the pop-up interface in the full screen mode, and that would function far better at the upper left corner, for the aforementioned reasons.
I don't need fancier controls or styles - if I did, I would have used a skin. It's all just in the way, quite unnecessarily. The design philosophy of the VLC was never to try to compete with the fancy-smancy commercial products with their increasingly convoluted interfaces - it makes me sad to see this change.

I hope that the version 1.0 is indeed modifiable enough for me to enjoy all the programming improvements without putting unimportant clutter to my desktop. Until then, I remain with 8.6.

Your patches are welcome.

[Kalean]

Alright, this thread has been posted in to death, and 1.0 will make everything kosher, but I'll add my comments. It's a long post, so I'll summarize in case people don't want to read through the whole thing. These are what I 'miss' about 0.8.x that are likely the source of most people's complaints.

1: Defaulted to a highly minimalistic setting, with almost no operating overhead.
2: There was a file menu. (Strangely, this matters to windows users. I don't know why.)
3: 'Quick Open File' (Control + O) was great.
4: Playlist didn't auto-sort items unless you told it to, so they were added to the playlist in the order you chose them.
5: Playlist allowed drag and drop re-arrangement.
6: Default settings integrated the video display with the player.

Things that are still good about 0.9.x:
The ability to play /any/ media file. VLC Media Player's claim to fame.
Most everything else.

Things that could still use a little work:
The options for VLC have never been very intuitive, and often require significantly more understanding than other media players to adjust.
More customizable interface without requiring a skin. (Added in 1.0? Yay!)
Not everyone owns a copy.

Diagnosis: The interface seems a subject of contention, but no matter how you look at it, VLC media player is still the very best media player there is.

----
Here's the full post.

I just want to list what I liked about 0.8.6. That is missing in the newer versions that I used. It should be noted that I haven't used them in some time, like many people I know, because I prefer how absolutely and elegantly simple 0.8.6 is, and VideoLan is still kind enough to host the 0.8.6i installer on their site. So some of them may be out of date. Still, I think that what this thread doesn't have, is a point by point listing of what made 0.8.6 so good to some of us.

First, and this is still in place with the newer versions of VLC, is the "I don't care what it is, VLC can open it" function granted by the built-in codec library. Never /ever/ change this, because this is what makes VLC Media Player absolute gold.

Second, in VLC 0.8.x, the program's interface was very minimal, and took no real overhead, so it seemed simplistic. This can be mostly regained by using the minimalistic settings in the new players, but it /was/ nice to have it default. Kudos to the team for making buttons adjustable in the upcoming 1.0 release, thus rendering this point null.

Third, in 0.8.x, there was a file menu. This seems silly, but a lot of windows users quite simply panic when they don't have a file menu. It's such a basic thing for Windows programs, that people's brains throw a gear when they don't see one. The fact that (in the version I used) the media menu didn't appear to have a 'quick open file' option like CTRL+O opened in 0.8.x only compounded this problem by making it seem like people would have to learn a whole new process to open a media file. This is also the main reason people say the new VLC "feels" like a linux program and not a windows program (besides the fact that it is.), because the vast majority of windows media players have a simple file menu with "Open" and "Exit" as options. There might be others, but those are specifically always there. When a user clicks on "open" and they get "did you want to open disc, open network, open a stream, view a local file, or..." many of them panic and feel confused. They're not used to it. With the quick open file feature of 0.8.x, the 'typical' windows user interface that some people were talking about was intact, and there was no panic.

Fourth, in 0.8.x, opening multiple files in the playlist opened them in the order you chose, as most windows programs that have the 'open multiple files' option do. This is not a deal breaker, but people who've been using windows for a while will find the loss of this to be problematic. The playlist also allowed drag and drop re-arrangement, which was much simpler. Fortunately, we can just save playlists once we have them done, so people really should start building up those .m3u files.

Finally, 0.8.x defaulted to having the picture and the controls in the same window. I can't emphasize enough how important it is for this to be default. I'm not certain which version of 0.9.x I used, but the video stream was not integrated in the same window with the controls by default. Certainly, it can be changed, and it seems like a non-issue for that reason, but in my opinion, one shouldn't have to navigate the (rather un-intuitive) options to change this. It should default this way, much like 0.8.x used to.

These are pretty much all my notes about what I found positive regarding 0.8.x. I actually like the way the new interface's minimal setting looks to a degree. It obviously took someone some real work, and it's really not that much different from the old one. Still, the old interface is also appealing because I'm used to it, I'm sure you've heard that before.

I'm not bothered enough by it to make a skin for everyone that looks like the old interface, I just use 0.8.x, and probably will continue to until VLC Media Player 1.0 comes out.

It should be noted, however, that no matter how much anyone wails on the new interface, or complains about missing the old one, there is one thing that you won't hear anyone ever debating: VLC Media Player is still the best media player around, hands down.

[Jean-Baptiste Kempf]

1: Defaulted to a highly minimalistic setting, with almost no operating overhead.
2: There was a file menu. (Strangely, this matters to windows users. I don't know why.)
3: 'Quick Open File' (Control + O) was great.
4: Playlist didn't auto-sort items unless you told it to, so they were added to the playlist in the order you chose them.
5: Playlist allowed drag and drop re-arrangement.
6: Default settings integrated the video display with the player.

1. No comment.
2. Well, we don't open just files in VLC, so a file menu is weird.
3. Still here in 0.9.8a on windows.
4. 5. True, but the playlist is more powerful now
6. Still the case on windows and on non-broken Linux.

[CKYHC]

Hi All,

yep, I've also returned back to 0.8x version after I've try the interface of 0.9x (a well known story here ).
It's grate, that the support reacts to customer requests and announce some interface changes in new version (1.0).

Can you please describe which changes are planed for the version 1.x according to the user interface (especially the main-window interface, i.e. buttons)?

Wbr,
Andrey

[Jean-Baptiste Kempf]

You will be able to put all the buttons you want in order you want, and make those flat, big or not.
You can put the toolbar above or under the video and you can choose different volume sliders.

[geoslake]

Great to hear that, I also switched back to 0.8.6 because of that - horrible - "gui".
Have to say that 0.8.6 also uses much less cpu, but it may be a matter of settings...

[eviloatmeal]

Don't know if this came up already, but apart from all the things mentioned that we miss about 8 (especially the minimalistic look and feel, I hate this new look, I hate it I hate it I hate it!), I want to add that when a video is done playing, 8 would shrink back to a small window with just the play / stop etc. controls.

9 does not do this, when a video finishes in 9, it centers the controls on your screen (why the f... frog does it do that??!) and leaves you with a big ugly maximized blank window.

I hate to use the word, but vlc 9 truly deserves the label "Retarded". This new look and feel is completely retarded. >_>

[A_SN]

Just chipping in to concur with the general hate. I tried to get used to 0.9.2 for a couple of weeks until I really had to go back to 0.8.6. I still use 0.8.6 by the way.

I don't mean to sound patronising or anything but it's generally considered a bad move to make a change that alienates your established user base. Also, if the new controversial interface was deemed an improvement, well, who deemed it an improvement? Actual beta testers?

[ogmozero]

lol
Going back to .8.6 just because that's how I was introduced to it. I have no huge problem myself with the new interface, and don't understand why half of you are being retarded and just saying "I DONT LIEK IT >:("

I'm going to guess that various members are still in high school, and I'm going to assume most of said population are gamers as well: Someone tells you they don't like a game... A game you tried to get them to like. You ask why of course, right? Them then replying "I just don't" or even nothing else... A bit frustrating, wouldn't you think? Then let's tack on 70% of everyone you tried to get to play the game that reply the same way. Good luck with that.

That being said, while I did mention I don't have a HUGE problem with it, there is one thing I found rather annoying (aside from the window not doing it's fun resizing routine at the end of a video anymore): Control buttons aren't dynamic... Having just upgraded, it seems odd to me (though I didn't pay as much attention in .8 either to tell you the truth) that it is so noticeable though that the buttons stick to a static position in relation to a corner, instead of like, the horizontal middle of the video.

Oh right, I need to follow the trend. Sorry, forgot a bit. IT'S TOO PRETTY. While I despise being that blunt about it, I do partially believe it. Then again, as you mention over and over Mr. Admin, 1.0 will provide all of us bitchy/whiney folk an opportunity to fix the wrongs in our minds. I personally can't wait for it. In the mean-time, however, I do believe I'll be sticking to the cult favorite.

Fantastic work on all of this so far, I've never had problems with VLC til just now (not the interface of .9, finally had some issues with .8, but whatever, not such a big deal I suppose), but I plan on sticking with it. Good luck with later releases!

[Jean-Baptiste Kempf]

Don't know if this came up already, but apart from all the things mentioned that we miss about 8 (especially the minimalistic look and feel, I hate this new look, I hate it I hate it I hate it!), I want to add that when a video is done playing, 8 would shrink back to a small window with just the play / stop etc. controls.

9 does not do this, when a video finishes in 9, it centers the controls on your screen (why the f... frog does it do that??!) and leaves you with a big ugly maximized blank window.

I hate to use the word, but vlc 9 truly deserves the label "Retarded". This new look and feel is completely retarded. >_>

Sorry, but VLC 0.9 has exactly the same behaviour as of 0.8: at the end of the song, it goes to the minimal mode. Maybe you f**ked up your prefs, or anything, but this comment is irrelevant.

[Jean-Baptiste Kempf]

Just chipping in to concur with the general hate. I tried to get used to 0.9.2 for a couple of weeks until I really had to go back to 0.8.6. I still use 0.8.6 by the way.

I don't mean to sound patronising or anything but it's generally considered a bad move to make a change that alienates your established user base. Also, if the new controversial interface was deemed an improvement, well, who deemed it an improvement? Actual beta testers?

Yeah, probably too pretty for you...

Unfortunately, except a few haters on the forum, we have received a huge support for the new interface... Sorry, you are not in the mass.

The fact that it is bigger and that can be a pain has been dealt with for 1.0. All other bitchings so far have no arguments...