VLC for iOS/tvOS 2.4.1 through 2.7.2 can't yet support AC3 Audio- here's why

[lesmikesell]

What I don't understand is why you are expected to pay for a codec over and over again for each app separately on any piece of hardware. If you get a dvd/blu-ray player it comes with a license for the device, not just one disc publisher. Apple must take a cut of the action.

[TheBigTime001]

What I don't understand is why you are expected to pay for a codec over and over again for each app separately on any piece of hardware. If you get a dvd/blu-ray player it comes with a license for the device, not just one disc publisher. Apple must take a cut of the action.

It doesn't work quite like that. DVDs and BluRay players use volume licencing and royalties to pay the necessary licence expenses. When ever there's a sale of such a player, royalties go into effect and a small % of the purchase price is paid to the relevant companies. With software, however, it's different, especially for a company like VideoLAN, which is more of a non-profit than anything else. If it wants to pay fees, it (obviously) cannot afford a constant royalty scheme. It must instead do a per-purchase licence fee, which should be enough to satisfy Dolby. Also, royalties can't work as VLC is (obviously) free. Plus, Dolby is bound and subject to the same United States licencing laws that (in)directly affect so many other people due to companies (such as Apple) having their primary business offices in the US.

[lesmikesell]

I understand why VLC doesn't provide licensing. What I don't understand is how Dolby can demand a separate payment for each application instead of just one for the device. Do blu-ray and tv manufactures pay extra for each application they add? Or do A/V receivers pay per input port? It seems very unfair first to trap content with a patented encoding and then to demand multiple payments just for different ways to play it on the same device.

[aidalai]

So then... Arenyou going to put the AC3 like an in app purchase finally, guys? Thanks.

[amedeop]

any news for AC3 audio? what about it in new release 2.6.0?

[mattack]

Yeah, 2.6.2 no longer has the warning in the download info, but I presume it's still missing. I'd pay $.99, and maybe more, for a new iOS version that fixes a few bugs that I reported that STILL plays the files I want to play... (Downloads from my TiVo, things like reality shows & documentaries that I watch faster than realtime with VLC.. But I'm stuck with the old version...)

[Jean-Baptiste Kempf]

Yeah, 2.6.2 no longer has the warning in the download info, but I presume it's still missing. I'd pay $.99, and maybe more, for a new iOS version that fixes a few bugs that I reported that STILL plays the files I want to play... (Downloads from my TiVo, things like reality shows & documentaries that I watch faster than realtime with VLC.. But I'm stuck with the old version...)

Dolby refuses to license it.

[Programmdude]

I would personally like a build on the ftp with this Ac3 enabled, just provide two copies, one with it disabled that is uploaded onto itunes, the other that has it enabled uploaded onto the ftp server. That way apple can do what it likes, and everyone else can enjoy videos on their ipads.

[vlciosdts]

The FTP way you're describing will not work due to jailbreaks getting more infrequent.

Just use DTS and ditch Dolby and Apple products. It's surprising either or both Dolby and Apple did this, but since a better alternative is available there isn't much loss.

DTS is better than Dolby AC3 on paper and in actual use (at least most of the time, dependent on mastering).

And while MKVs are better than MP4s on paper, in actual use they are pretty much the same with MP4 having a bit higher device compatibility.

Unfortunately DTS in MP4s doesn't work on VLC/iOS and might never due to the devs not looking into the bug.

[bob5215]

Yeah, 2.6.2 no longer has the warning in the download info, but I presume it's still missing. I'd pay $.99, and maybe more, for a new iOS version that fixes a few bugs that I reported that STILL plays the files I want to play... (Downloads from my TiVo, things like reality shows & documentaries that I watch faster than realtime with VLC.. But I'm stuck with the old version...)

Dolby refuses to license it.

Really? Not even under their normal licensing scheme?

I know there's an upfront cost, though I have no doubt it could be easily paid for using a kickstarter campaign to add this feature to VLC.

[Jean-Baptiste Kempf]

Yeah, 2.6.2 no longer has the warning in the download info, but I presume it's still missing. I'd pay $.99, and maybe more, for a new iOS version that fixes a few bugs that I reported that STILL plays the files I want to play... (Downloads from my TiVo, things like reality shows & documentaries that I watch faster than realtime with VLC.. But I'm stuck with the old version...)

Dolby refuses to license it.

Really? Not even under their normal licensing scheme?

Yes, because we are open source. Which is a violation of their promises to authorities of having FRAND licensing of their patents.

[bob5215]

Yeah, 2.6.2 no longer has the warning in the download info, but I presume it's still missing. I'd pay $.99, and maybe more, for a new iOS version that fixes a few bugs that I reported that STILL plays the files I want to play... (Downloads from my TiVo, things like reality shows & documentaries that I watch faster than realtime with VLC.. But I'm stuck with the old version...)

Dolby refuses to license it.

Really? Not even under their normal licensing scheme?

Yes, because we are open source. Which is a violation of their promises to authorities of having FRAND licensing of their patents.

Oh, OK, that's too bad.

I guess the only consolation is that the AC-3 patent will expire in 22 months. I believe Dolby derives most of their revenues from this patent which I suppose is why they so vigorously defend it.

The EAC-3 (Dolby Digital Plus) patent expires 5 years later but it's mostly used in specialty applications rather than broadcast.

[lesmikesell]

Yes, because we are open source. Which is a violation of their promises to authorities of having FRAND licensing of their patents.

I thought FRAND was a requirement to license to everyone at reasonable terms. Is there no way to have an optional non-open source plugin with an ios app?

[jonfrost]

I can understand not playing ac3 tracks, but... Why does vlc just error out when the content contains both aac and ac3 tracks? Why won't it play the aac and ignore the ac3?

Agreed - what about this?

I have a video encoded with AC3 and AAC - so why doesn't it just fallback to my AAC downmix track or just play without audio (as it probably should for anything where the codec is not available).

I did some testing:-

• If I close the "Codec not supported" message and quickly select the AAC track, it will play audio the audio, but after a few seconds it still cancels the playback. Basically, any attempt to decode AC3 kills the playback.
• The workaround: if I recode the stream with the AAC stream as the primary audio stream , it works fine (but I don't really want to recode everything, AC3 is the primary track for many US systems)

[mattack]

Wasn't there another thread that said there was going to be a "workaround" for this issue?

I'm still using the old version because of this issue.. But noticed another problem. I tried downloading shows from my Tivo (which I then play in VLC on my iPad faster-than-realtime, the main reason I use VLC) in Transport Stream format. Those files play on my Mac in Quicktime Player with audio, but those files transferred to my iPad with the _old_ version of VLC play with no audio. Strange. The reason for downloading in Transport Stream is that the download is significantly faster.

So for now I'm just going to not use Transport Stream format. But basically, ignoring the AC-3 issue, is VLC supposed to support Transport Stream format video?

Sorry, I know this is mostly a tangent, but it's a pain to get back to the old VLC, and AFAIK I don't have any NON-AC3 recordings to just try the current VLC version with.

[lesmikesell]

Never thought I would say this, but Kodi seems like a better player than the current vlc, particularly on IOS and over DLNA. They have come up with a way to side-load that is still convoluted and needs a mac with xcode7 but doesn't require a full local compile: http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=245978.

[dfuhrmann]

Thanks for this link. As far as I know, you should be able to use a similar procedure with VLC for iOS. We provide unsigned ipk packages as well on our website, so there should be no need to recompile the code. You just need to find a way to correctly sign those bundles.

[ssbmaccom]

Not sure, but it should be possible to use the codesign tool with a developer certificate, which you can get without being charged for the paid developer program. Then uploading it to a non-jailbreaked device should also be possible via Xcode- not sure about this. Anyway - these internal Developer signed Apps have to be refresehd after 60 (or 90) days, sothe App has to be removed and re-installed after re-signing it. Not really handsome.

Anyway - as I am new to this forum I went through the posts here - for me Dolby is not specifically targeting iOS Apps or mobile Apps in general while neglecting Desktop Applications with their AC3 licensing thing. On a Desktop machine you can install VLC including AC3 from any source, usually the VLC homepage. There is no chance to have control on this. Even if the "official" Desktop VLC version would come without AC3 some day, there will be plenty of websites, where you can get VLC with AC3 support. Or simply the plugin and instructions, where to place it.

If VLC of OS X would have been published through the AppStore ONLY (no direct download) then it may get targeted as well. On iOS there is no "offical" source except the AppStore to install VLC and it is hard to add the plugin as you do not have access to the file system. Jailbroken iDevices get more rare nowadays. And Dolby told Apple, there are Apps using AC3 codec without a license granted. Then Apple followed the GuideLines and removed Apps, with "illegal" contents - and it has to be legal in the US. This is why Apple has removed VLC from the store and gently allowed it again,after AC3 codec has been removed.

And why is Android and Windows Phone not affected? Well almost all Android devices get rooted, so you can side-load APKs with AC3 included - there is no real control, so maybe Dolby gave up on it. And Windows Phone is potentially just too small to put efforts into it.

Just too bad,Dolby won't allow it for licensed IAP. But in this case maybe the GPL/LGPL license may cause their concerns. VLC with AC3 would be a derived product of VLC w/out AC3 -and therefore VLC and the AC3 have to be Open Source. Dolby may not like this. And IAP does not allow to download additional contents (like a plugin) it just allows to enable or disable features. So it is not possible to add the plugin as binary to an installed version of VLC without AC3. The plugin has to be part of VLC already, and due to the (L)GPL-license it may not be closed source.

But indeed - FRAND should imply, that they have to give the license for AC3 with reasonable terms and negotiate with you, what terms and royalties (business model) is serving both parties the best. Just a NO because VLC is OpenSource does not sound like they even try to be cooperating in settling this. I think, just don't give up on this with Dolby, at least until these efforts cost money (lawyer etc.)- and at this point crowd-funding could be helpful.

[Ted13]

Oh, OK, that's too bad.

I guess the only consolation is that the AC-3 patent will expire in 22 months. I believe Dolby derives most of their revenues from this patent which I suppose is why they so vigorously defend it.

Well 22 months is good news (sort of).

But as another TiVo user (mostly music performers from late night talk shows - Fallon etc. etc.) I'd love to find an alternative for the next 22+ months. I googled and the best iPad AC3 supporting App seems to be Infuse 3 (or Pro or 4) but while they do support AC3, they don't support MPEG-2 video (.mpeg or .mpg), which what comes from TiVo. They say: "Play more video formats (MKV, MP4, AVI, WMV, M4V, MOV, MTS, FLV, OGM, OGV, ASF, 3GP, DVR-MS, WebM, WTV)"

Any other suggestions?

[mattack]

Just to make it clear -- this issue affects the Apple TV version too, right? I presume it must. So maybe the thread title should be updated.

(BTW, Tivo finally added a play-faster-than-realtime functionality, which I am using a lot.. but it only speeds up by 30%. That's enough of a boost for a short talk show segment, for an entire show, I'd still probably download and watch via VLC if this worked..)

[henrixg]

Hi, I'm new on this forum and with the apple tv, I did upload 2 movies with same spec AAC, but one have sound and the other one don't, can anyone help me why this happens?

Thx.

[MattLx]

The licensing all makes sense and I'll pay any reasonable in-app fee to get AC3 support. Most of my files have AC3 so I can't use the app until something changes. Regardless, I donated a little $ today just to help the team.

My question: Anyone here know the simplest way to convert an MKV with AC3 to some audio format that will currently work on VLC on ATV - preferably a compatible 5.1 format. I know the basics of EAC3TO and FFMPEG and prefer to use either one of those. I'm just not experienced enough to know the parameters to use for this workflow.

Thanks,
Matt

[MattLx]

While I know Handbrake can transform any file for ATV3, for some reason I wanted another option. I found Smart Converter Pro 2 in the App Store and that seems to work really well - until VLC can read MKV with AC3. That's not a sale for the app - honestly I have no connection to it. There's a free version too. I paid for the Pro version just so I could expose a couple additional options like choosing a destination for the file, NOT having the resulting file imported into iTunes, and assigning the ATV button to the ATV3 format settings (vs. ATV1 or ATV2). The app converts my HD MKV (w/ AC3) files to ATV3 compatible MP4 files in approximately 30 seconds. The quick speed makes me think the video is not being transcoded in the process.

[dfuhrmann]

You might try the free App "Subler" as well. As far as I know, it does pretty much the same (remuxing without transcoding), and can convert AC3 to AAC as well.

[TheHistorian]

Licensing seems to be out, and waiting for the patent to expire is a ways off. Okay.

So what can we do in the meantime? I bought an Apple TV a couple weeks ago based on the VLC app announcement, but many of my files are useless because of this audio issue. (Also waiting on the SMB fix, but that seems to be progressing)

Is there anything to be done other than using Handbrake or equivalent to convert the audio on every movie I want to watch? That's time consuming, but I guess if it's the only option...